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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 601 of 1429 (896364)
08-07-2022 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 573 by Dredge
08-05-2022 7:17 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
I hope you're not thinking of giving up your day-job to become a rational thinker.
I already gave up my day job when I retired. And I became a rational thinker (with occasional lapses) decades before that.
The core of rational thinking is reasoning. You need to provide reasons for your conclusions, which you never do.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 573 by Dredge, posted 08-05-2022 7:17 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 602 of 1429 (896365)
08-07-2022 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 582 by Dredge
08-06-2022 4:42 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Those posters deliberately and dishonestly twisted my words and misrepresented my position...
Your words are already twisted and what you call a "position" is nothing but denial.
By the way, the only reason I talk to a scum-sucking troll like you at all is the improve MY understanding. If I say something wrong, I expect to be corrected. That's how science works.
And I have learned a few things in this thread.

Edited by ringo, : Added missong apostrophe.


"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 582 by Dredge, posted 08-06-2022 4:42 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 603 of 1429 (896366)
08-07-2022 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 590 by Dredge
08-06-2022 7:35 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Please explain how ToE (the theory that all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor via the mechanism of natural selection acting on mutations)⁶ has contributed to the development of flu vaccines.
You neglected to remove the footnote reference (6) from wherever you copy-pasted your answer. Try saying it in your own words.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by Dredge, posted 08-06-2022 7:35 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 605 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 11:28 AM ringo has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 604 of 1429 (896367)
08-07-2022 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 598 by AZPaul3
08-07-2022 10:12 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
AZPaul3 writes:
Point is, only in understanding the ToE do we have understanding of the vectors of disease and how to formulate vaccines to more effective use.
Point is, no one needs to accept the theory that all life on earth shares a common ancestor to develop vaccines.
Hypothetically, a YEC scientist could develop vaccines just as competently as a Darwinist scientist. A medical scientist doesn't need to accept Darwinist folklore (universal common ancestry) to understand and utilize the principles and mechanisms of evolution .
We know exceptionally well the forces and mechanisms that created ... the fossil record.
You can't prove it, so please stop talking delusional crap. Your discombobulation is embarrassing.
I'm finding it increasing difficult to believe your claim that you're a fair-dinkum scientist. What sort of scientist claims to "know" something that he can't prove that he knows?

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 598 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 10:12 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 614 by nwr, posted 08-07-2022 6:17 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 626 by ringo, posted 08-08-2022 11:53 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 605 of 1429 (896368)
08-07-2022 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 603 by ringo
08-07-2022 11:04 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
It's not a footnote reference. I don't how it got there. I used my own words.
Maybe there's a glitch in the system.

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 603 by ringo, posted 08-07-2022 11:04 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 625 by ringo, posted 08-08-2022 11:45 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 606 of 1429 (896369)
08-07-2022 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 597 by Percy
08-07-2022 9:07 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Sorry, I don't understand any of that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 597 by Percy, posted 08-07-2022 9:07 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 628 by Percy, posted 08-08-2022 4:34 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 607 of 1429 (896370)
08-07-2022 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 600 by AZPaul3
08-07-2022 10:42 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
AZPaul3 writes:
Yes, we know. Can't even respond to the right poster.
I choose to blame you for that mistake.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 10:42 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 608 of 1429 (896371)
08-07-2022 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 592 by dwise1
08-06-2022 7:57 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
dwise1 writes:
A footnote reference! Where did that come from?
Good question. I have no idea how that little number got there ... it wasn't a quote ... not that it matters.
What source did you steal that from?
My fragile, eggshell mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 592 by dwise1, posted 08-06-2022 7:57 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 609 of 1429 (896375)
08-07-2022 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 596 by Dredge
08-07-2022 8:45 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
The fact remains that no one can prove that they know what process produced the changes evident in the fossil record, and therefore no one can claim to know how evolution works.
Stop repeating your stupid lies and answer the question!:
DWise1 writes:
Do you know the difference between "evolution" and ToE?
Yes, I do know that difference. So do all the rest of us.
Rather, you keep showing us that you do not know.
So then, do you know the difference between "evolution" and ToE?
Do you even know what evolution is and what the Theory of Evolution is?
We certainly have been trying to explain it to you so many times, but to no effect.
So why don't you explain to us what evolution is, what the Theory of Evolution is, and what the difference between them is? What's holding you back?
And if by "ToE" you mean something completely different from the Theory of Evolution, then you must explain that to us too.
Nothing's holding you back. What are you waiting for?
All you did in Message 589 was to vaguely allude to Natural Selection as if NS were the whole of evolution instead of just being one small part! Rather it is NS interacting with the rest of what life naturally does which constitutes evolution.
Tell the whole story! Refusing to do so, especially when you know better, constitutes deliberate lying! How could anyone ever serve the God of Truth with nothing but lies?
Also (from my reply, Message 591, to your failed attempt to fake knowing what you're talking about):
DWise1 writes:
Sledge writes:
As for the theory of evolution, there are different versions.
So if you are aware of different versions, that means that you can list them and describe each one. And that you hopefully understand each one well enough to discuss its pros and cons, to the best of your ability.
Also bear in mind that the overall Theory of Evolution is itself a bundle of theories each dealing with a subtopic within the study of evolution. Just picking a single one of those theories out of that bundle and misrepresenting it as being the entirety of evolutionary theory, which is precisely what you have just done, is an act of either extreme dishonesty or extreme stupidity. Or both, which I suspect in your case.
Instead, try honesty this once in your deluded life. For shits and grins if for no other reason.
A visit to ontogeny might be helpful, since embryonic development is where changes get expressed (forget how fast and loose Star Trek and X-Men play with DNA expression).
If you think that any part of that has problems, then explain. Be as specific as needed. And provide valid arguments or complaints, not the same old stupid bullshit you've been posting so far.
You know what you need to do, SO DO IT! If you truly know what you are talking about, as you keep falsely claiming you do (LIAR!), then PROVE IT!
Stop being a stupid troll who witnesses of his stupid troll god (who is not to be confused with any actual Christian version of "God").

This message is a reply to:
 Message 596 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 8:45 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 610 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 2:10 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 610 of 1429 (896376)
08-07-2022 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 609 by dwise1
08-07-2022 12:56 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
The fact remains that no one can prove that they know what process produced the changes evident in the fossil record, and therefore no one can claim to know how evolution works.
dwise1 writes:
Stop repeating your stupid lies
It's not a lie ... it's an inescapable fact you can't prove that know what process produced the changes evident in the fossil record.
You know what you need to do, SO DO IT! If you truly know what you are talking about, as you keep falsely claiming you do (LIAR!), then PROVE IT!
Stop being a stupid troll who witnesses of his stupid troll god (who is not to be confused with any actual Christian version of "God").
Sorry, but I'm not interested in playing your diversionary games. It seems clear to me that you refuse to face up to the truth of my argument, which is this: You can't prove that you know what process produced the changes evident in the fossil record, therefore you can't claim to know how evolution works.
Is there a weakness in your character that is preventing you from accepting this obvious fact?
Perhaps you are too proud to be corrected and humbled by the simple logic of the village idiot.
Or perhaps your atheist faith cannot tolerate the fact that - contrary to the delusion you've been living under for so long - your Darwinist doctrine cannot be proven to be factual.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 609 by dwise1, posted 08-07-2022 12:56 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 611 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 3:52 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 615 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 6:56 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 624 by Percy, posted 08-08-2022 9:21 AM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 611 of 1429 (896380)
08-07-2022 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 610 by Dredge
08-07-2022 2:10 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Hypothetically, a YEC scientist could develop vaccines just as competently as…
What an idiot. We lived through millennia of your pre-science and anti-science YEC-in-charge and all we got for it was bloodletting, trepanning, leeches and burning at the stake. Useless catholic crap.
When YECs, catholics and religious goons like you were in charge humanity suffered blood, pain and stupidity. As soon as science, and especially evolution, were in charge, humanity started curing diseases and has cured thousands ever since. All due to ToE.
You blind, lying piece of religious meat. When the bug comes to get you all your praying leeches, gallons of spilled blood and burnt stakes will do you for nothing. Only ToE derived medicine can save you.
It's not a lie ... it's an inescapable fact you can't prove that know what process produced the changes evident in the fossil record.
Of course your objections are fuckin' lies and you know it! The reality of the ToE painfully sticks in your craw because it means your god didn't created anything and your whole religious edifice crumbles before your eyes.
ToE defines the fossil record and leads human efforts to succeed in fighting disease.
I can see why you're afraid of the ToE. It not only explains life and destroys diseases it does so without any god in sight. Maybe you need to go back to the convent and eat another cracker to soothe over your injured catholic fantasy.

Edited by AZPaul3, .


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 610 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 2:10 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 612 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 5:33 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 612 of 1429 (896389)
08-07-2022 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 611 by AZPaul3
08-07-2022 3:52 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
AZPaul3 writes:
ToE. It ... explains life and destroys diseases
Knowledge of the mechanisms of evolution has certainly contributed to the treatment of disease, but the theory that all life on earth shares a common ancestor has contributed nothing at all to the treatment of disease. It's a useless theory.
I invite you to prove me wrong by providing an example of how the theory that all life on earth shares a common ancestor has contribted to the treatment of disease.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 611 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 3:52 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 613 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 5:47 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 618 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-07-2022 8:46 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 627 by ringo, posted 08-08-2022 11:59 AM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 613 of 1429 (896393)
08-07-2022 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 612 by Dredge
08-07-2022 5:33 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Didn't think this question through did you.
providing an example of how the theory that all life on earth shares a common ancestor has contribted to the treatment of disease.
Because all life, as described and supported in the ToE, is of the same chemistry. That gives us a big insight into how and why disease, whether pathogenic or genetic, happens and may be treated.
You really are dumb as a, well, a catholic aren't you. God that has to suck.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 612 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 5:33 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 636 by Dredge, posted 08-12-2022 7:25 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 614 of 1429 (896395)
08-07-2022 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by Dredge
08-07-2022 11:26 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Hypothetically, a YEC scientist could develop vaccines just as competently as a Darwinist scientist.
Empirically (as constrasted with your "hypothetically"), many YEC were refusing to use the COVID19 vaccine, and were instead recommending horse dewormer medication.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 11:26 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 616 by dwise1, posted 08-07-2022 7:32 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 615 of 1429 (896396)
08-07-2022 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 610 by Dredge
08-07-2022 2:10 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
it's an inescapable fact you can't prove that know what process produced the changes evident in the fossil record.
You can't prove the ToE did not create the fossil record. You can't prove any other mechanism did created the fossil record.
We have copious evidence that evolution is consistent in its operations as far back in time as we can physically see. We have identified, categorized, and lab/field tested and documented those operations we can see happen. We have no reasons to doubt the mechanisms we have identified extend well into those few remaining unknowable parts of our past.
But your version of “prove” assumes that in those dark hidden parts some unknowable different mechanisms were in operation. Mechanisms that no one has ever seen before. Mechanisms unknown with no details. You insist, without evidence, without reasoning, that our documented mechanisms, as in the ToE, are wrong. That is your burden to prove.
You can’t do it. One too many crackers on the brain.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 610 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 2:10 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 697 by Dredge, posted 08-17-2022 12:27 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
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