Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
0 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 421 of 1429 (896057)
07-30-2022 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by AZPaul3
07-09-2022 10:42 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
AZPaul3 writes:
we have the original land animal the whales evolved from: pakicetus.
Prove it. You can't. All you can do it is recite Darwinist folklore and mindlessly claim it's factual.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by AZPaul3, posted 07-09-2022 10:42 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by AZPaul3, posted 07-30-2022 3:56 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 438 by ringo, posted 07-31-2022 10:20 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 422 of 1429 (896058)
07-30-2022 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Tangle
07-10-2022 7:01 AM


Tangle writes:
That's sad for you but science doesn't need what you insist on having to know that the middle ear evolved - we have the fossils to prove it.
I'm not arguing that there is a lack of evidence for evolution - I'm arguing that it's impossible to know what caused it.
The article you linked doesn't explain what caused the evolution of the middle-ear ... because no one knows.
Your article is just one more example of not knowing how evolution works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Tangle, posted 07-10-2022 7:01 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by Tangle, posted 07-30-2022 7:40 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 423 of 1429 (896059)
07-30-2022 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by kjsimons
07-10-2022 7:28 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
kjsimons writes:
Not stupid but somewhere along in his life he became a looney! He now basically believes in an intelligent designer for some crazy reason. Many otherwise intelligent people can be total loons about some things and that's what's happened to this doctor. I feel sorry for him but nothing he says has any effect on the reality of evolution.
Dr. Bechly doesn't deny that evolution has happened ... he argues that ToE can't account for what is observed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by kjsimons, posted 07-10-2022 7:28 AM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 426 by kjsimons, posted 07-30-2022 4:44 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 429 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-30-2022 6:38 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 439 by ringo, posted 07-31-2022 10:25 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 473 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-01-2022 10:35 AM Dredge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 424 of 1429 (896060)
07-30-2022 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by Dredge
07-30-2022 3:13 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
we have the original land animal the whales evolved from: pakicetus.
Prove it. You can't.
OK, so here is a book that shows the evidence, the "proof" from your vernacular, that whales evolved just as advertised, step-by-step, through each variant we can identify.
The Emergence of Whales
Here. Something a little less challenging to not stress your mind.
Whale Evolution
So, tell us Altar Boy, what specific facts cited in this work do you question? Show us on what page and what paragraph where the authors get it wrong. Where are the errors? Can you find any?
You keep saying we haven't got this stuff but there it is.
You keep saying it's wrong. OK. Where? Show me.
Go ahead, Cracker-Meathead, show us the depth of your scholarship.

Edited by AZPaul3, : added site


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 3:13 PM Dredge has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 425 of 1429 (896062)
07-30-2022 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Dredge
07-30-2022 2:59 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Proof is a concept which applies only in mathematics. Evidence is what applies in science.
Have a read of this. Have a go at trying to understand it.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 2:59 PM Dredge has not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 426 of 1429 (896063)
07-30-2022 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by Dredge
07-30-2022 3:40 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
He's wrong and so are you. Get over it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 3:40 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 5:36 PM kjsimons has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 427 of 1429 (896065)
07-30-2022 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 426 by kjsimons
07-30-2022 4:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Prove that he's wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by kjsimons, posted 07-30-2022 4:44 PM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 428 by Theodoric, posted 07-30-2022 6:25 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 431 by kjsimons, posted 07-30-2022 9:05 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 432 by nwr, posted 07-30-2022 9:30 PM Dredge has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 428 of 1429 (896066)
07-30-2022 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Dredge
07-30-2022 5:36 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
You will never understand science. Proof has nothing to do with science. Science uses evidence.

Edited by Theodoric, : better word choice


What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 5:36 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 429 of 1429 (896067)
07-30-2022 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by Dredge
07-30-2022 3:40 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dr. Bechly doesn't deny that evolution has happened ... he argues that ToE can't account for what is observed.
Does he really?
Which specific observations does he dispute?
How would he correct the Theory of Evolution to more accurately describe reality?
Does he provide any supporting evidence?
Citations would be nice

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 3:40 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 430 of 1429 (896069)
07-30-2022 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 422 by Dredge
07-30-2022 3:32 PM


Dredge writes:
I'm not arguing that there is a lack of evidence for evolution
That would be rather difficult wouldn't it?
I'm arguing that it's impossible to know what caused it.
Nobody is disagreeing. Of course that's impossible to know.
The article you linked doesn't explain what caused the evolution of the middle-ear ... because no one knows.
Yup, no-one knows. Nor can we ever know. Fascinating isn't it - to make sense of it we need to form hypotheses from how we know evolution works today.
Your article is just one more example of not knowing how evolution works.
Nope, it's one more article showing that evolution happened.
If you want to discuss what we know about the process of evolution and how it would have applied to events in the far distant past we'll happily get into that.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 3:32 PM Dredge has not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 431 of 1429 (896073)
07-30-2022 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Dredge
07-30-2022 5:36 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
No, you prove that he's right. This is your sword to fall on, not mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 5:36 PM Dredge has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 432 of 1429 (896074)
07-30-2022 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Dredge
07-30-2022 5:36 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Prove that he's wrong.
What's the point of arguing about this?
If you doubt that ToE fully explains evolution, you are entitled to those doubts. But just repeating your doubts doesn't do anything. You won't persuade anybody that way.
I disagree with Bechly, but I don't repeatedly tell him that. He is entitled to his own doubts, too.
Bechly isn't persuading the biologists, just as Behe isn't persuading the biologists. Meanwhile, ToE continues to generate a considerable amount of good scientific research. The contrary ideas of Behe and Bechly have failed to generate substantial research programs.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 5:36 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 1:27 AM nwr has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 433 of 1429 (896075)
07-31-2022 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 432 by nwr
07-30-2022 9:30 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
nwr writes:
What's the point of arguing about this?
If you doubt that ToE fully explains evolution, you are entitled to those doubts. But just repeating your doubts doesn't do anything. You won't persuade anybody that way.
You don't seem to understand my argument. I'm not arguing that ToE is inadequate and I'm not trying to persuade anyone that it is.
My argument is that no one can prove that ToE (or any other theory) describes the process that shaped the fossil record, therefore no one can claim to know how evolution works.
Even if ToE is an accurate description of the process that shaped the history of life on earth, no one will ever know, because no one can prove that it is.
Darwinists (like those on this site, for example) claim to know how evolution works, but they can't prove it, so it seems to me that they're seriously delusional or seriously brain-washed ... or worse.
Bechly isn't persuading the biologists, just as Behe isn't persuading the biologists.
No kidding? Bechly and Behe are not going to persuade all those rusted-on atheist biologists out there. On the contrary, all those rusted-on atheist biologists out there will be hostile to any suggestion of intelligent design in nature.
"The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” (Psalms 14:1)

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by nwr, posted 07-30-2022 9:30 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 434 by vimesey, posted 07-31-2022 7:57 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 435 by nwr, posted 07-31-2022 8:37 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 436 by AZPaul3, posted 07-31-2022 8:42 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 440 by ringo, posted 07-31-2022 10:32 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 441 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-31-2022 11:01 AM Dredge has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 434 of 1429 (896076)
07-31-2022 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 433 by Dredge
07-31-2022 1:27 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Once again Dredge, proof is not a concept that exists in science - only falsifiable hypotheses backed by evidence.
Read this article - it'll give you a start at understanding what you're trying to attack.
Until you understand what you're trying to attack, you're just Don Quixote, tilting at windmills.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 1:27 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 446 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 11:59 AM vimesey has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 435 of 1429 (896077)
07-31-2022 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 433 by Dredge
07-31-2022 1:27 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
My argument is that no one can prove that ToE (or any other theory) describes the process that shaped the fossil record, therefore no one can claim to know how evolution works.
Yawn!
Science isn't about proof. Science is about the best explanation, given the evidence.
Neither you nor Bechly nor Behe has a better explanation.
Bechly and Behe are not going to persuade all those rusted-on atheist biologists out there.
There are also many Christian biologists out there. "Atheist" has nothing to do with the issue.
On the contrary, all those rusted-on atheist biologists out there will be hostile to any suggestion of intelligent design in nature.
I'm not hostile to the idea that there is intelligent design in nature. But I am hostile to the stream of lies and bullshit coming from the intelligent design movement.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 1:27 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 12:18 PM nwr has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024