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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(3)
Message 1290 of 1429 (903615)
12-14-2022 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1282 by Dredge
12-14-2022 8:28 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
It doesn't make any difference to medicine what the "relatedness of all species" is due to,
It does matter.
quote:
Darwin’s description of “descent with modification” points to two aspects of evolution that can help us assess the matching between a prospective model species and its intended target. One is trees that represent the structure of phylogenetic relationships; the other is phenotypic traits, i.e. the unique characteristics of each species’ evolved biology and natural history. Mapping traits onto a phylogeny is the first step toward analyzing the source of similarities between a target and a potential model. Whether similar traits arise from shared ancestry or from adaptive convergence has important implications for what kinds of inferences can be justified, and for the likely translatability of findings. Evolution offers both a rich source of possible models, and guidance for choosing the best ones for a given purpose. Considering model choice from an evolutionary angle not only helps to answer the question “What species might be a good model for studying x?” but also suggests additional questions we should be asking to assess the utility of both potential and current models. Recognizing the diverse ways model organisms can function expands our search image as we seek species to study that can both extend general knowledge, and generate translatable insights relevant to human neurobiology and disease.
Selection of Models: Evolution and the Choice of Species for Translational Research - FullText - Brain, Behavior and Evolution 2019, Vol. 93, No. 2-3 - Karger Publishers
You keep insisting that UCD is useful to medicine, but you can't cite even one example to support your claim.
Anyone who happens across this thread will see who the honest people are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1282 by Dredge, posted 12-14-2022 8:28 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 1303 of 1429 (903699)
12-15-2022 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1300 by Dredge
12-15-2022 9:47 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
I think what you're trying to say is, scientists don't need the theory of UCD to know how and why vaccines work.
Scientists used UCD to figure out how vaccines work, as I have already shown you. It doesn't matter if you think they needed it or not. They used UCD.
quote:
RNA sensors such as Toll-like receptor 7 (TLR7) and MDA5 are triggered by the mRNA vaccines, and TLR9 is the major double-stranded DNA sensor for the AdV vaccine. The resultant activated DCs present antigen and co-stimulatory molecules to S protein-specific naive T cells, which become activated and differentiated into effector cells to form cytotoxic T lymphocytes or helper T cells. T follicular helper (TFH) cells help S protein-specific B cells to differentiate into antibody-secreting plasma cells and promote the production of high affinity anti-S protein antibodies.
COVID-19 vaccines: modes of immune activation and future challenges | Nature Reviews Immunology
Our knowledge of toll-like receptors came from applying UCD.
quote:
Two and a half years later, the idea of innate immunity in humans and its connections to defense in invertebrates had already taken hold. At least 150 scientists gathered at a National Academy of Sciences colloquium in Irvine, Calif., entitled “Virulence and Defense in Host-Pathogen Interactions: Common Features between Plants and Animals.” At the meeting, 12 researchers specifically discussed their work on toll in flies and “toll-like receptors”—as the mammalian versions are now known—and other aspects of innate immunity. Two dozen other scientists focused on patterns common to the insect and mammalian pathogens.

By March 2001, scientists had found 10 other human toll-like receptors, including toll-like receptor 2, which Shizuo Akira, MD, and colleagues at Osaka University showed responds to a particular sequence found in bacterial DNA but not in mammalian DNA. To get an idea of how fast the field has grown since 1997, a literature search for the term “toll-like receptor” in 2022 brought up more than 56,000 abstracts.

The evolutionary connections also awed researchers, as they eventually found toll-like molecules in worms, mice, even plants. Plant geneticist Santosh Misra, PhD, and colleagues at the University of Victoria in British Columbia genetically engineered antimicrobial peptides into potatoes to get the crops to withstand fungal infection. Protective compounds produced by plants could conceivably work as new classes of antibiotics in people as well.
The History Behind The Discovery of toll-like Receptors < Yale School of Medicine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1300 by Dredge, posted 12-15-2022 9:47 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1388 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2022 8:44 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(3)
Message 1305 of 1429 (903708)
12-15-2022 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1304 by Dredge
12-15-2022 11:50 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Explain why scientists need the theory of UCD to develop vaccines ... and try to keep it sane.
They used UCD to develop vaccines.
quote:
RNA sensors such as Toll-like receptor 7 (TLR7) and MDA5 are triggered by the mRNA vaccines, and TLR9 is the major double-stranded DNA sensor for the AdV vaccine. The resultant activated DCs present antigen and co-stimulatory molecules to S protein-specific naive T cells, which become activated and differentiated into effector cells to form cytotoxic T lymphocytes or helper T cells. T follicular helper (TFH) cells help S protein-specific B cells to differentiate into antibody-secreting plasma cells and promote the production of high affinity anti-S protein antibodies.
COVID-19 vaccines: modes of immune activation and future challenges | Nature Reviews Immunology
Our knowledge of toll-like receptors came from applying UCD.
quote:
Two and a half years later, the idea of innate immunity in humans and its connections to defense in invertebrates had already taken hold. At least 150 scientists gathered at a National Academy of Sciences colloquium in Irvine, Calif., entitled “Virulence and Defense in Host-Pathogen Interactions: Common Features between Plants and Animals.” At the meeting, 12 researchers specifically discussed their work on toll in flies and “toll-like receptors”—as the mammalian versions are now known—and other aspects of innate immunity. Two dozen other scientists focused on patterns common to the insect and mammalian pathogens.

By March 2001, scientists had found 10 other human toll-like receptors, including toll-like receptor 2, which Shizuo Akira, MD, and colleagues at Osaka University showed responds to a particular sequence found in bacterial DNA but not in mammalian DNA. To get an idea of how fast the field has grown since 1997, a literature search for the term “toll-like receptor” in 2022 brought up more than 56,000 abstracts.

The evolutionary connections also awed researchers, as they eventually found toll-like molecules in worms, mice, even plants. Plant geneticist Santosh Misra, PhD, and colleagues at the University of Victoria in British Columbia genetically engineered antimicrobial peptides into potatoes to get the crops to withstand fungal infection. Protective compounds produced by plants could conceivably work as new classes of antibiotics in people as well.
The History Behind The Discovery of toll-like Receptors < Yale School of Medicine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1304 by Dredge, posted 12-15-2022 11:50 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1306 by AZPaul3, posted 12-15-2022 6:44 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 1390 of 1429 (904133)
12-22-2022 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1388 by Dredge
12-22-2022 8:44 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
They used UCD? Really? In that case, whereabouts in the article you cited does a scientist say they "used UCD to figure out how vaccines work"?
They used knowledge of toll-like receptors to figure out how vaccines work, and our knowledge of toll-like receptors came from UCD. I have cited all of the relevant articles multiple times now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1388 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2022 8:44 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1395 by Dredge, posted 01-07-2023 8:13 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 1401 of 1429 (904855)
01-09-2023 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1395 by Dredge
01-07-2023 8:13 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
So says Taq the Darwinoid con-man ... unfortunately for your lies, NONE of the scientists mentioned in the article said anything about our knowledge of toll-like receptors coming from UCD.
quote:
Two and a half years later, the idea of innate immunity in humans and its connections to defense in invertebrates had already taken hold. At least 150 scientists gathered at a National Academy of Sciences colloquium in Irvine, Calif., entitled “Virulence and Defense in Host-Pathogen Interactions: Common Features between Plants and Animals.” At the meeting, 12 researchers specifically discussed their work on toll in flies and “toll-like receptors”—as the mammalian versions are now known—and other aspects of innate immunity. Two dozen other scientists focused on patterns common to the insect and mammalian pathogens.

By March 2001, scientists had found 10 other human toll-like receptors, including toll-like receptor 2, which Shizuo Akira, MD, and colleagues at Osaka University showed responds to a particular sequence found in bacterial DNA but not in mammalian DNA. To get an idea of how fast the field has grown since 1997, a literature search for the term “toll-like receptor” in 2022 brought up more than 56,000 abstracts.

The evolutionary connections also awed researchers, as they eventually found toll-like molecules in worms, mice, even plants. Plant geneticist Santosh Misra, PhD, and colleagues at the University of Victoria in British Columbia genetically engineered antimicrobial peptides into potatoes to get the crops to withstand fungal infection. Protective compounds produced by plants could conceivably work as new classes of antibiotics in people as well.
The History Behind The Discovery of toll-like Receptors < Yale School of Medicine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1395 by Dredge, posted 01-07-2023 8:13 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1406 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 12:24 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 1407 of 1429 (905341)
01-23-2023 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1406 by Dredge
01-23-2023 12:24 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Nice try, con-man, but no cigar. The comments you highlighted in your quote were made by the author of the article, NOT by any of the scientists involved in the work on toll-like receptors described in the article.
Toll-like receptors were first discovered in fruit flies, and through common descent they were discovered in other species, including humans. Our knowledge of toll-like receptors are vital for understanding immunology, including our knowledge of how vaccines work.
Show me a single thing in the paragraph above that is not true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1406 by Dredge, posted 01-23-2023 12:24 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1412 by Dredge, posted 02-04-2023 11:40 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 1423 of 1429 (905981)
02-06-2023 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1412 by Dredge
02-04-2023 11:40 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Too easy ... you can't demonstrate it's "true" (ie, a fact) that it was "through common descent" that
toll-like receptors were discovered in other species, including humans.
I already demonstrated just that in multiple posts.
As I've already pointed out, you can't cite even one scientist involved in toll-receptor research who says anything about the role UCD played.
I already cited those papers that did exactly that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1412 by Dredge, posted 02-04-2023 11:40 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 1424 of 1429 (905983)
02-06-2023 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1414 by Dredge
02-05-2023 12:35 AM


Re: On A Similar Note...
Dredge writes:
Ken Ham must have evolved from a pig, so why the hell do you claim he evolved from an ape?
Ken Ham is an ape, just like all humans. Ken Ham is also a primate, a mammal, a vertebrate, and a eukaryote. This was true since before Darwin first proposed his theory. Linnaeus discovered these facts 100 years before Darwin.
It's funny how those who reject evolution don't know the basics of biology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1414 by Dredge, posted 02-05-2023 12:35 AM Dredge has not replied

  
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