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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 191 of 1429 (895299)
06-21-2022 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Tanypteryx
06-04-2022 1:11 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
Funny, I must have missed that, I haven't seen him do anything but ask inane questions. 
My "inane questions" have demonstrated that your claim to "know how evolution works" is bullshit.
You can't describe the process involved in the evolution of even one novel body plan or organ ... or how prokaryotes evoloved from eukaryotes ... or how whales evolved from a land animal ... or how an amphibian's heart evolved from a fish's heart.
In other words, your knowledge of how evolution works appears to be trivial and superficial, at best.
Knowing how finches' beaks changed shape over time doesn't prove you know how evolution produced the changes evident in the fossil record.

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-04-2022 1:11 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-21-2022 10:34 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


(1)
Message 193 of 1429 (895301)
06-21-2022 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by marc9000
06-05-2022 3:54 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
marc9000 writes:
Most, if not all, of the questions Dredge has raised have no chance of ever being accessible to the limited minds of man.
Well said. No one can possibly know the processes involved in the evolution of novel body plans or organs ... therefore no one can possibly claim to know how evolution works.
That is a simple, undeniable fact that Darwinists don't want to face up to. The modus operandi of the cult of Darwinism is to throw up a bewildering smoke-screen of science/pseudo-science in order to fool the masses ... which is very effective ... but they don't fool everyone.
What scares me is how publicly funded school science classes tell their captive audience school children that evolution and atheism have absolutely no connection to each other , while Intelligent design and Christianity are closely related. But it doesn't scare me too much, most kids are smart enough to see through that lie.
The late philosopher of science, William Provine was 100% correct when he said "Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented". It amazes me how many theistic-evolutionist scientists deny this obvious fact.
On one hand, the education system promotes atheism via an untestable scientific theory; but on the other hand, the education system despises intelliegence design, which uses scientific facts to promote theism. It's not hard to see a demonic conspiracy at work here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by marc9000, posted 06-05-2022 3:54 PM marc9000 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by nwr, posted 06-21-2022 6:28 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 194 of 1429 (895302)
06-21-2022 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by AZPaul3
06-04-2022 6:29 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
All your theorizing is just meaningless bluff. Take an organism and evolve a novel body plan or organ from it - then I will accept that you know how evolution works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2022 6:29 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-21-2022 11:02 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 201 by AZPaul3, posted 06-21-2022 3:21 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 196 of 1429 (895304)
06-21-2022 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Tanypteryx
06-20-2022 2:28 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Tanyptyeryx writes:
That's what a scientific theory is, everything we know about the subject.
Try as it might, not even decades of unrelenting Darwinist propaganda can turn a theory into a fact - ie, knowledge.
Your irrational attempt to equate a theory with knowledge is typical of Darwinists and demonstrates how thoroughly deluded they are.
This has already been answered a bunch of times. Novel body plans and organs evolve through reproduction, with changes from generation to generation (descent with modification), and nature selects for differential reproductive success. Novel body plan and organs evolve the same way as all other biological features, they are only recognized as novel when humans compare them to ancestral forms.
Your theorizing is just bluff and is as meaningless as a fairy tale.
Take an organism and evolve a novel body plan or organ from it - then I will accept that you know how evolution works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-20-2022 2:28 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by ringo, posted 06-21-2022 11:48 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 199 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-21-2022 12:06 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 208 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-21-2022 6:50 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 200 of 1429 (895310)
06-21-2022 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by ringo
06-03-2022 12:04 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
ringo writes:
Don't just deny, deny, deny.
??? What am I denying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 12:04 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by AZPaul3, posted 06-21-2022 3:26 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 210 by ringo, posted 06-21-2022 9:20 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 204 of 1429 (895315)
06-21-2022 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Tanypteryx
06-03-2022 3:50 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Tanypteryx writes:
What matters is that you can't describe any novel body plan or organ. I don't think you can point to a single novel body plan or novel organ. The evolutionary process is descent with modification, not poof with modification.
Can you describe the step-by-step process involved in the (alleged) evolution of an amphibian's double-circulation heart from a fish's single-circlation heart? No - you don't even know how that process got to first base. All you can do is speculate - speculation doesn't demonstrate knowledge.
Can you describe the step-by-step process involved in the (alleged) evolution of a whale's blowhole or tail?
No - you don't even know how that process got to first base. All you can do is speculate - speculation doesn't demonstrate knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-03-2022 3:50 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by kjsimons, posted 06-21-2022 5:41 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 206 by AZPaul3, posted 06-21-2022 5:58 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 209 by ringo, posted 06-21-2022 9:07 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 211 by Stile, posted 06-22-2022 8:42 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 214 of 1429 (895329)
06-22-2022 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Stile
05-31-2022 10:18 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
but until someone actually produces a eukaryote from a prokaryote, they can't claim to know how that evolution happened.
Stile writes:
Why not?
Bcoz the (alleged) evolution of eurkaryotes from prokaryotes is
unobservable and unrepeatable. Therefore the only way to know how eurkaryotes evolved from prokaryotes is to literally produce eurkaryotes from prokaryotes.
I know how climbing mountains happens.
But I've never been atop Everest.
I know how lawn mowers work.
But I've never built a small engine.
I know how heavier-than-air flight happens.
But I've never designed an airplane.
These are really poor analogies. All the examples you offer are readily observable and repeatable ... unlike the (alleged) evolution of eurkaryotes from prokaryotes.

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Stile, posted 05-31-2022 10:18 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by ringo, posted 06-22-2022 12:34 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 216 by Stile, posted 06-22-2022 1:03 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 217 of 1429 (895332)
06-22-2022 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Percy
05-31-2022 11:23 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Percy writes:
You believe life on earth evolved because you know what evolution looks like in the fossil record, and you know what evolution looks like because you know how it works.
What a poor argument. I can see that computers have evolved over the years, yet I know nothing at all about how computers work and how to improve them.
The late, great French zoologist, Paul-Pierre Grasse, concluded from the fossil record that evolution had occurred, but believed that it is impossible to know how it happened.
Evolution works by selection and mutation resulting in descent with modification. Do we know the details of how the whale's blowhole migrated to the top of its head in terms of mutations, matings and morphological changes? No, of course not. But we still know how evolution works.
You don't KNOW how the macro-evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record happened bcoz they're unobservable and unrepeatable, therefore you can't claim to KNOW how evolution works. All you can do is formulate a theory.
Do you understand the difference between a THEORY and KNOWLEDGE?
Science doesn't work by proving things.
If you can't PROVE how the macro-evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record happened, you can't claim to KNOW how they happened.
What science does do is gather or produce evidence in support of various hypotheses, and if one hypothesis reaches the point where it is widely accepted within the relevant scientific community then it becomes a theory.
You forgot to mention the next step that you and your fellow Darwinists take in the name of science - the theory (of evolution) then becomes a fact ... based on faith ... hence your claim that you "know" how the evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record happened.
You understand how houses are built, right? Men measuring and sawing boards, pounding nails, installing windows, adding insulation and shingles, and so forth? But can you provide the exact details of how any particular house was built? Could even an experienced builder reconstruct the precise construction details of any house, even one he built himself a number of years ago? No. Does that mean we don't understand how houses are built?
A very poor analogy. How houses are built is readily observable and repeatable ... unlike the macro-evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record.

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Percy, posted 05-31-2022 11:23 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by ringo, posted 06-22-2022 3:20 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 223 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-22-2022 4:55 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 218 of 1429 (895333)
06-22-2022 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Percy
05-31-2022 12:18 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Percy writes:
We can learn a great deal today through genetic analysis that tells us some events of our evolutionary past. For example, chimps have 24 chromosome pairs and humans 23. There are two of the chimp chromosomes that if combined would be pretty much the same as one of the human chromosomes. Therefore we know that at some time in our evolutionary past after the chimp/human common ancestor diverged into a line that led to chimps and another that led to humans, that that chromosome in the chimp line spilt, or those chromosomes in the human line combined.
I not denying that there is evidence for evolution.
But which of these two possibilities is what really happened? We don't know. When did it happen? We don't know. Was the change gradual or sudden? We don't know. What caused the chromosomes to combine or to split? We don't know.
... and yet, despite the mountain of "don't know" regarding the ancient past, you still claim to know how evolution works. Fascinating.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Percy, posted 05-31-2022 12:18 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by AZPaul3, posted 06-22-2022 6:15 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 266 by Percy, posted 06-27-2022 1:14 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 219 of 1429 (895334)
06-22-2022 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by dwise1
05-31-2022 1:58 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
dwise1 writes:
Bertrand Russell is quoted as saying that if a Catholic becomes a freethinker then he will most likely become an atheist, whereas if a Protestant becomes a freethinker then he'll just form a new church.
"If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32).
According to this passage, Catholics are the true freethinkers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by dwise1, posted 05-31-2022 1:58 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by vimesey, posted 06-22-2022 2:19 PM Dredge has not replied
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 226 of 1429 (895350)
06-23-2022 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Tanypteryx
06-22-2022 4:55 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Do you understand the difference between a THEORY and KNOWLEDGE?
Tanypteryx writes:
You really don't get it, do you?
If I don't "get it", please explain what you mean.

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-22-2022 4:55 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 227 of 1429 (895351)
06-23-2022 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Tanypteryx
06-22-2022 4:55 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Do you understand the difference between a THEORY and KNOWLEDGE?
Tanypteryx writes:
Funny, the only people who have this fantasy are creationists, because all you have is faith in fictional stories.
You can't prove that they're "fictional stories", so your claim is based on faith.
The Theory of Evolution has something far more powerful than faith...it has supporting evidence in libraries and museums around the world.
But Darwinists (esp the atheist variety) believe that ToE is more than a theory - they believe it is a fact. Believing that a theory is also a fact requires an act of FAITH.
It's impossible to know how any of the evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record occurred, so atheists like you put your FAITH in ToE to provide an explanation ... going so far as to make the laughable FAITH claim that you "know" how that those transitions happened.
Come to think of it, to claim to "know" something that can't possibly be known actually goes beyond faith ... it's flat-out DELUSION.
I have faith in Jesus Christ and I believe my faith is the truth, but unlike Darwinist fanatics, I don't claim to "know" that my faith is the truth. That is the difference between religious faith and Darwinist delusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-22-2022 4:55 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by nwr, posted 06-23-2022 3:04 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 231 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-23-2022 3:37 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 252 by Percy, posted 06-25-2022 3:42 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 253 by Parasomnium, posted 06-25-2022 4:47 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 228 of 1429 (895352)
06-23-2022 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Percy
05-31-2022 11:23 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Percy writes:
But which of these two possibilities is what really happened? We don't know. When did it happen? We don't know. Was the change gradual or sudden? We don't know. What caused the chromosomes to combine or to split? We don't know.
It's impossible to know how even ONE evolutionary transition evident in the fossil record happened ... yet you claim to know how evolution works!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Percy, posted 05-31-2022 11:23 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Percy, posted 06-25-2022 9:17 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 230 of 1429 (895355)
06-23-2022 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by kjsimons
06-20-2022 6:17 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
kjsimons writes:
you basically admit that evolution happens. So why tf are you even posting here? Since you agree evolution happens, there is no argument!
I accept that the fossil record shows that life-forms have changed over time ... a process that could be called "evolution". However, I don't accept the Darwinian explanation for that "evolution".
In fact, I don't accept any scientific explanation for the fossil record, because it's impossible to know what process was responsible ... hence my contention that anyone who claims to know how evolution works is talking nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by kjsimons, posted 06-20-2022 6:17 PM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by kjsimons, posted 06-23-2022 3:43 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 234 by Taq, posted 06-23-2022 4:19 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 243 by ringo, posted 06-24-2022 11:50 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 233 of 1429 (895358)
06-23-2022 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Tangle
06-20-2022 5:59 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
See Message 230

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2022 5:59 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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