|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tanypteryx writes:
My "inane questions" have demonstrated that your claim to "know how evolution works" is bullshit. Funny, I must have missed that, I haven't seen him do anything but ask inane questions. You can't describe the process involved in the evolution of even one novel body plan or organ ... or how prokaryotes evoloved from eukaryotes ... or how whales evolved from a land animal ... or how an amphibian's heart evolved from a fish's heart. In other words, your knowledge of how evolution works appears to be trivial and superficial, at best. Knowing how finches' beaks changed shape over time doesn't prove you know how evolution produced the changes evident in the fossil record.Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, .
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined:
|
marc9000 writes:
Well said. No one can possibly know the processes involved in the evolution of novel body plans or organs ... therefore no one can possibly claim to know how evolution works. Most, if not all, of the questions Dredge has raised have no chance of ever being accessible to the limited minds of man. That is a simple, undeniable fact that Darwinists don't want to face up to. The modus operandi of the cult of Darwinism is to throw up a bewildering smoke-screen of science/pseudo-science in order to fool the masses ... which is very effective ... but they don't fool everyone.
What scares me is how publicly funded school science classes tell their captive audience school children that evolution and atheism have absolutely no connection to each other , while Intelligent design and Christianity are closely related. But it doesn't scare me too much, most kids are smart enough to see through that lie.
The late philosopher of science, William Provine was 100% correct when he said "Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented". It amazes me how many theistic-evolutionist scientists deny this obvious fact. On one hand, the education system promotes atheism via an untestable scientific theory; but on the other hand, the education system despises intelliegence design, which uses scientific facts to promote theism. It's not hard to see a demonic conspiracy at work here.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
All your theorizing is just meaningless bluff. Take an organism and evolve a novel body plan or organ from it - then I will accept that you know how evolution works.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tanyptyeryx writes:
Try as it might, not even decades of unrelenting Darwinist propaganda can turn a theory into a fact - ie, knowledge. That's what a scientific theory is, everything we know about the subject. Your irrational attempt to equate a theory with knowledge is typical of Darwinists and demonstrates how thoroughly deluded they are.
This has already been answered a bunch of times. Novel body plans and organs evolve through reproduction, with changes from generation to generation (descent with modification), and nature selects for differential reproductive success. Novel body plan and organs evolve the same way as all other biological features, they are only recognized as novel when humans compare them to ancestral forms.
Your theorizing is just bluff and is as meaningless as a fairy tale. Take an organism and evolve a novel body plan or organ from it - then I will accept that you know how evolution works.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
ringo writes:
??? What am I denying?
Don't just deny, deny, deny.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tanypteryx writes:
Can you describe the step-by-step process involved in the (alleged) evolution of an amphibian's double-circulation heart from a fish's single-circlation heart? No - you don't even know how that process got to first base. All you can do is speculate - speculation doesn't demonstrate knowledge. What matters is that you can't describe any novel body plan or organ. I don't think you can point to a single novel body plan or novel organ. The evolutionary process is descent with modification, not poof with modification. Can you describe the step-by-step process involved in the (alleged) evolution of a whale's blowhole or tail?No - you don't even know how that process got to first base. All you can do is speculate - speculation doesn't demonstrate knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Dredge writes:
but until someone actually produces a eukaryote from a prokaryote, they can't claim to know how that evolution happened.
Stile writes:
Bcoz the (alleged) evolution of eurkaryotes from prokaryotes is
Why not?
unobservable and unrepeatable. Therefore the only way to know how eurkaryotes evolved from prokaryotes is to literally produce eurkaryotes from prokaryotes.
I know how climbing mountains happens.
These are really poor analogies. All the examples you offer are readily observable and repeatable ... unlike the (alleged) evolution of eurkaryotes from prokaryotes.But I've never been atop Everest. I know how lawn mowers work.But I've never built a small engine. I know how heavier-than-air flight happens.But I've never designed an airplane. Edited by Dredge, .
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Percy writes:
What a poor argument. I can see that computers have evolved over the years, yet I know nothing at all about how computers work and how to improve them. You believe life on earth evolved because you know what evolution looks like in the fossil record, and you know what evolution looks like because you know how it works. The late, great French zoologist, Paul-Pierre Grasse, concluded from the fossil record that evolution had occurred, but believed that it is impossible to know how it happened.
Evolution works by selection and mutation resulting in descent with modification. Do we know the details of how the whale's blowhole migrated to the top of its head in terms of mutations, matings and morphological changes? No, of course not. But we still know how evolution works.
You don't KNOW how the macro-evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record happened bcoz they're unobservable and unrepeatable, therefore you can't claim to KNOW how evolution works. All you can do is formulate a theory. Do you understand the difference between a THEORY and KNOWLEDGE?
Science doesn't work by proving things.
If you can't PROVE how the macro-evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record happened, you can't claim to KNOW how they happened.
What science does do is gather or produce evidence in support of various hypotheses, and if one hypothesis reaches the point where it is widely accepted within the relevant scientific community then it becomes a theory.
You forgot to mention the next step that you and your fellow Darwinists take in the name of science - the theory (of evolution) then becomes a fact ... based on faith ... hence your claim that you "know" how the evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record happened.
You understand how houses are built, right? Men measuring and sawing boards, pounding nails, installing windows, adding insulation and shingles, and so forth? But can you provide the exact details of how any particular house was built? Could even an experienced builder reconstruct the precise construction details of any house, even one he built himself a number of years ago? No. Does that mean we don't understand how houses are built?
A very poor analogy. How houses are built is readily observable and repeatable ... unlike the macro-evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record.Edited by Dredge, .
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Percy writes:
I not denying that there is evidence for evolution.
We can learn a great deal today through genetic analysis that tells us some events of our evolutionary past. For example, chimps have 24 chromosome pairs and humans 23. There are two of the chimp chromosomes that if combined would be pretty much the same as one of the human chromosomes. Therefore we know that at some time in our evolutionary past after the chimp/human common ancestor diverged into a line that led to chimps and another that led to humans, that that chromosome in the chimp line spilt, or those chromosomes in the human line combined.
But which of these two possibilities is what really happened? We don't know. When did it happen? We don't know. Was the change gradual or sudden? We don't know. What caused the chromosomes to combine or to split? We don't know.
... and yet, despite the mountain of "don't know" regarding the ancient past, you still claim to know how evolution works. Fascinating.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
"If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32). Bertrand Russell is quoted as saying that if a Catholic becomes a freethinker then he will most likely become an atheist, whereas if a Protestant becomes a freethinker then he'll just form a new church. According to this passage, Catholics are the true freethinkers.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Do you understand the difference between a THEORY and KNOWLEDGE?Tanypteryx writes:
If I don't "get it", please explain what you mean.
You really don't get it, do you?
Edited by Dredge, .
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Do you understand the difference between a THEORY and KNOWLEDGE?Tanypteryx writes:
You can't prove that they're "fictional stories", so your claim is based on faith.
Funny, the only people who have this fantasy are creationists, because all you have is faith in fictional stories.
The Theory of Evolution has something far more powerful than faith...it has supporting evidence in libraries and museums around the world.
But Darwinists (esp the atheist variety) believe that ToE is more than a theory - they believe it is a fact. Believing that a theory is also a fact requires an act of FAITH. It's impossible to know how any of the evolutionary transitions evident in the fossil record occurred, so atheists like you put your FAITH in ToE to provide an explanation ... going so far as to make the laughable FAITH claim that you "know" how that those transitions happened. Come to think of it, to claim to "know" something that can't possibly be known actually goes beyond faith ... it's flat-out DELUSION. I have faith in Jesus Christ and I believe my faith is the truth, but unlike Darwinist fanatics, I don't claim to "know" that my faith is the truth. That is the difference between religious faith and Darwinist delusion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Percy writes:
It's impossible to know how even ONE evolutionary transition evident in the fossil record happened ... yet you claim to know how evolution works!
But which of these two possibilities is what really happened? We don't know. When did it happen? We don't know. Was the change gradual or sudden? We don't know. What caused the chromosomes to combine or to split? We don't know.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
kjsimons writes:
I accept that the fossil record shows that life-forms have changed over time ... a process that could be called "evolution". However, I don't accept the Darwinian explanation for that "evolution". you basically admit that evolution happens. So why tf are you even posting here? Since you agree evolution happens, there is no argument! In fact, I don't accept any scientific explanation for the fossil record, because it's impossible to know what process was responsible ... hence my contention that anyone who claims to know how evolution works is talking nonsense.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
See Message 230
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024