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Author Topic:   All About Biblical Kinds
MrIntelligentDesign
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Posts: 144
Joined: 09-21-2015


Message 1 of 64 (891650)
01-29-2022 7:01 PM


Christians and Christian scientist like me are being insulted that we cannot even explain and define the Biblical "Kinds". Even the AiG is using BARAMIN or baraminology to explain "Kinds". In here, I would like to share how we must use science to explain the Bible. AronRa had given us hints.

What is the Phylogeny Challenge actually? This challenge is a challenge made by AronRa, as uploaded in his YouTube channel to, probably, challenge to think those persons who are against Biological Evolution, or Evolution. Probably, it was based on AronRa’s experience in dealing with those persons who are against Evolution. He thought that nobody in this world could rebut and uproot ToE. Thus, Phylogeny Challenge too is too hard to be rebutted, for Phylogeny Challenge is talking about reality. Phylogeny Challenge is a challenge to non-evolution supporters (like me) to make another model for the relatedness of all life forms - a new classification method, just like Phylogeny tree, based on the Biblical principle of “kinds”. AronRa thought that the supporters of Creationism, of old Intelligent Design (ID) and some religious folks had no models to fight head to head, science vs science and intellect vs intellect against Evolution. Thus, giving them this unanswerable challenge is both a win to AronRa and a defeat to those who are against Evolution.

What is Phylogeny Challenge to AronRa? If you have time, you can go to AronRa’s YouTube channel and you could see that he is uploading many videos that support the Theory of Evolution (ToE). But there is one video that had caught my eyes. It was the Phylogeny Challenge. Based on what AronRa had been saying in many online discussions, especially in the The NonSequitur Show, he admittedly said that doing a Phylogeny Tree, according to Evolution, was his hobby. Since he was trained, educated and molded in the science of Evolution, he relied on the science and explanation from Darwin. AronRa had said further in one of his explanations that the relatedness of all living organisms, as graphed and connected lines in a Phylogeny Tree, is one of the best examples of Evolution. Thus, to AronRa, the Phylogeny Challenge is not only his hobby in YouTube but also his lifestyle now.

Actually, based on his recent admission, AronRa said that his Phylogeny Tree, as hobby before, is now already his job, just like any other person with a full-time job. According to one of his friends (or probably staff? Or helper? for Phylogeny Tree Compilation), Jackson Wheat, AronRa now is doing a full-time job compiling all species and all possible known fossils and put them in a Phylogeny Tree to be classified according to the standard classification of ToE. It was a longtime dream of AronRa, as you can see in his many YouTube videos, that the Phylogeny Tree for Evolution must be completed to see the relatedness of all living organisms.

AronRa too had said that if someone will be going to support him, he will personally compile and complete the Phylogeny tree, as has been shown in his Phylogeny Challenge video. He loves it. He really is interested on it since no other explanations or models could compete the Theory of Evolution (ToE). And the Phylogeny Tree, as based on ToE, is making all paleontologists and biologists to be very busy looking for fossils to be included in the Phylogeny Tree. Busy which means job, job which means money coming in, money which means happy living here on Earth. And many people will praise AronRa for completing the Phylogeny Tree.

Thus, for AronRa, the Phylogeny Challenge is not only his challenge but one of his many bases in science. Basis, since he believes that no person like me could topple and replace the Theory of Evolution (ToE). He also probably believed that no one in this world, on any generations of Earth in science, could give a new model for biological science that challenges Biological Evolution. In this, he failed since I am here.

ALL ABOUT BIBLICAL KINDS (AronRa's Phylogeny Challenge Accepted)

Edited by MrIntelligentDesign, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 5 by Tangle, posted 02-07-2022 2:03 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied
 Message 6 by AZPaul3, posted 02-07-2022 3:54 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 02-08-2022 12:23 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied
 Message 11 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 02-08-2022 11:33 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied
 Message 12 by dwise1, posted 02-09-2022 2:48 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied
 Message 13 by Taq, posted 02-09-2022 4:47 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12814
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 2 of 64 (891651)
01-31-2022 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign
01-29-2022 7:01 PM


Moderator Request
MrIntelligentDesign writes:

AronRa had given us hints.

Topic proposals are not teasers. Please follow rule 4 of the Forum Guidelines:

  1. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

Please summarize the content of the AronRa link in your own words and use the link only as a supporting reference.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 01-29-2022 7:01 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
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MrIntelligentDesign
Member
Posts: 144
Joined: 09-21-2015


Message 3 of 64 (891652)
02-06-2022 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
01-31-2022 7:45 AM


Re: Moderator Request
Thank you for correction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 01-31-2022 7:45 AM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12814
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 4 of 64 (891654)
02-07-2022 1:35 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the All About Biblical Kinds thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Tangle
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Posts: 8579
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 5 of 64 (891655)
02-07-2022 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign
01-29-2022 7:01 PM


I'm not clear why I should care what AronRa thinks or says or makes videos about?

Can you just say how you are going to produce an alternative Phylogeny? Faith promised several times to produce one but strangely didn't.

Taxonomy and cladistics are extremely well-developed branches of biology, first created by physical characteristics and since confirmed (largely) by genetics and microbiology.

You'll find that every effort you make takes you in the same direction because the physiology and genetics of animals and plants define it by simple (and complex) observation.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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AZPaul3
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Posts: 6832
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 6 of 64 (891659)
02-07-2022 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign
01-29-2022 7:01 PM


since I am here.

You are an internet figment. You are a ghost. You are a disgusting little worm. You are a nothing.

You couldn't explain ID (as you said you would) in your last thread because, again, you are an internet figment, you are a ghost, you are a disgusting little worm, you are a nothing.

As a religionist you are a fraudulent priest, a charlatan. What the bible itself calls a false prophet, a demon.

You lie. You prance around with your big ass nose stuck up your own butt going on about how wonderful your own farts smell.

You are a dishonest, demented, detestable little wimp.

But you are the entertainment of the day so at least you got that going for you.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 01-29-2022 7:01 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 38 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 02-19-2022 1:27 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 7 of 64 (891665)
02-07-2022 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by AZPaul3
02-07-2022 3:54 PM


That reminds me ...
Long long ago in a land far far away when I was designing some of the earliest Cable TV systems it was not unusual to find public opposition and misconceptions like "The cable sucks the signal out of the air so your antenna won't work anymore".

In one California Town I got a letter from an irate citizen upset that we would run a cable down the existing power and telephone poles it ran down the real of their property.

It began "Dear Son-of-a-Bitch" and ended with "Nasty Letter to Follow".

Edited by jar, : on --> one


My Website: My Website

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ringo
Member
Posts: 19733
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 8 of 64 (891678)
02-08-2022 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign
01-29-2022 7:01 PM


MrIntelligentDesign writes:

Christians and Christian scientist like me are being insulted that we cannot even explain and define the Biblical "Kinds".


That's partly because your "Biblical kinds" are not Biblical.

The Bible uses the word "kind" much as we do - e.g. "What kind of dog is that?"

For example, look at Leviticus 11:

  • "the kite after his kind"
  • "Every raven after his kind"
  • "the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind"
  • "the heron after her kind"
  • "the locust after his kind"
  • "the bald locust after his kind"
  • "the beetle after his kind"
  • "the grasshopper after his kind."
  • "the tortoise after his kind"

"What kind of bird is that?"

Notice that the hawk and the night hawk appear to be different kinds. Also the locust and the bald locust appear to be different kinds.

Each reproduces according to his kind or her kind. All of them had to be on the ark - no magical speedy differentiation after the Flood.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 01-29-2022 7:01 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3421
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 9 of 64 (891680)
02-08-2022 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by ringo
02-08-2022 12:23 PM


  • "the kite after his kind"
  • "Every raven after his kind"
  • "the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind"
  • "the heron after her kind"
  • "the locust after his kind"
  • "the bald locust after his kind"
  • "the beetle after his kind"
  • "the grasshopper after his kind."
  • "the tortoise after his kind"

So, the heron is the only female kind. That explains a lot.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 02-08-2022 12:23 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 10 of 64 (891682)
02-08-2022 4:59 PM


The phylogenetic challenge has been around for about 140 years.

quote:
Now, since the days of Linnæus this principle has been carefully followed, and it is by its aid that the tree-like system of classification has been established. No one, even long before Darwin's days, ever dreamed of doubting that this system is in reality, what it always has been in name, a natural system. What, then, is the inference we are to draw from it? An evolutionist answers, that it is just such a system as his theory of descent would lead him to expect as a natural system. For this tree-like system is as clear an expression as anything could be of the fact that all species are bound together by the ties of genetic relationship. If all species were separately created, it is almost incredible that we should everywhere observe this progressive shading off of characters common to larger groups, into more and more specialized characters distinctive only of smaller and smaller groups. At any rate, to say the least, the law of parsimony forbids us to ascribe such effects to a supernatural cause, acting in so whimsical a manner, when the effects are precisely what we should expect to follow from the action of a highly probable natural cause.
--George Romanes, "The Scientific Evidence for Organic Evolution", 1882
The Project Gutenberg eBook of The Scientific Evidences of Organic Evolution, by George J. Romanes, M.A., LL.D., F.R.S.

After 140 years, creationists still haven't cracked this nut.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


  
AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 672
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(5)
Message 11 of 64 (891689)
02-08-2022 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign
01-29-2022 7:01 PM


Evolution between kinds observed!
Two researchers at Uppsula University, north of Stockholm, Sweden have now definitively observed the evolution of one kind into a radically different kind. Professors Katarina Frye and Pilar Butterfield have observed, in a remarkably short time period, the evolution of a worm kind into a bird kind. The worm was unusual in having many pairs of short, stubby legs and feasted on green leaves, indicating it had the ability to digest cellulose. The bird, on the other hand, had filamentous wings and a long proboscis and ate plant nector. The biology community, which is very excited by this discovery, has named the two species after the researchers: The worm form has been named Katar pilar and the bird form Butter frye. The latest report from this lab is the discovery of a fish kind that rapidly evolves into an amphibian kind, this discovery by the professor’s two graduate students Theodore Lavi and Ranah Polle.

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 Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 01-29-2022 7:01 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

  
dwise1
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Posts: 5179
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 12 of 64 (891695)
02-09-2022 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign
01-29-2022 7:01 PM


OK, so what you are telling us is that you have nothing and you are only interested in bitching and moaning (with a lot of gnashing of teeth thrown in as well) at the very idea that you might be expected to present and support your own position.

And it takes you six paragraphs of a meandering rant that contains nothing but ad hominems and ... well, nothing.

So then what possible purpose can there be for this topic except for you to demonstrate that you have nothing (which I have no doubt that you will continue to demonstrate repeatedly and emphatically) and for us to agree with you?

I honestly cannot understand what you could possibly think that you'd be accomplishing here.

Edited by dwise1, : corrected small typo: interesting --> interested


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Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 13 of 64 (891699)
02-09-2022 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign
01-29-2022 7:01 PM


MrIntelligentDesign writes:

Thus, for AronRa, the Phylogeny Challenge is not only his challenge but one of his many bases in science. Basis, since he believes that no person like me could topple and replace the Theory of Evolution (ToE). He also probably believed that no one in this world, on any generations of Earth in science, could give a new model for biological science that challenges Biological Evolution. In this, he failed since I am here.

And yet we don't see an alternate explanation for the phylogenetic signal seen in both the morphological and genetic data. Apparently, MrID thinks he should get a trophy for just showing up.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 01-29-2022 7:01 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by dwise1, posted 02-09-2022 5:16 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 22 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 02-10-2022 7:48 PM Taq has replied
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5179
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 14 of 64 (891701)
02-09-2022 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taq
02-09-2022 4:47 PM


Apparently, MrID thinks he should get a trophy for just showing up.

You mean because of his entitled childhood where everybody got a trophy? Just for participating?

But he hasn't participated. Nor does he demonstrate any inclination to ever participate.


"Crazy is never invited to the party. It just shows up."


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3421
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 15 of 64 (891703)
02-09-2022 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by dwise1
02-09-2022 5:16 PM


But he hasn't participated. Nor does he demonstrate any inclination to ever participate.

This is Trump's contribution to science, you don't actually have to do anything ever, just say you did, over and over.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by dwise1, posted 02-09-2022 5:16 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 02-10-2022 7:50 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
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