Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Power of the New Intelligent Design...
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 1081 of 1197 (908568)
03-16-2023 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1077 by sensei
03-16-2023 6:25 PM


Re: Typical?
sensei writes:
If we apply the model of point mutations for neutral DNA with four different bases A, C, G and T, the similarity in junk DNA should drop to 25%.
There are GC biases in mutations, but you are essentially right. If there is enough time since common ancestry then the accumulated mutations in each lineage will reduce any similarity to random noise in junk DNA.
If we were sharing a common ancestor with plants and insects, given the estimate that over hundreds of millions of generations have passed (or even more for many species with shorter life cycles), every base should have gone through several mutations already in the vast majority of individuals today.
It seems that we share too much DNA with such supposedly distant relatives, it does not really add up.
You are forgetting about sequence conservation due to natural selection.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1077 by sensei, posted 03-16-2023 6:25 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1083 by sensei, posted 03-16-2023 6:46 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 1082 of 1197 (908570)
03-16-2023 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1078 by sensei
03-16-2023 6:26 PM


Re: Typical?
sensei writes:
95% of your evidence is junk for sure.
Your inability to address the evidence is noted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by sensei, posted 03-16-2023 6:26 PM sensei has not replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 473
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1083 of 1197 (908574)
03-16-2023 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1081 by Taq
03-16-2023 6:39 PM


Re: Typical?
And how does natural selection preserve sequences in junk DNA? If sequences were beneficial, it would not be junk, so your excuse is just worthless and hopelessly flawed. Do you have anything better, or is this the best you can do to explain the huge difference between data and model?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1081 by Taq, posted 03-16-2023 6:39 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1084 by Taq, posted 03-16-2023 6:49 PM sensei has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 1084 of 1197 (908577)
03-16-2023 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1083 by sensei
03-16-2023 6:46 PM


Re: Typical?
sensei writes:
And how does natural selection preserve sequences in junk DNA?
It doesn't. It conserves sequence in functional DNA. When genomes of very distantly related species are compared the only bits that have recognizable similarity is functional DNA, not junk DNA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1083 by sensei, posted 03-16-2023 6:46 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1085 by sensei, posted 03-16-2023 6:55 PM Taq has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 473
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1085 of 1197 (908582)
03-16-2023 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1084 by Taq
03-16-2023 6:49 PM


Re: Typical?
If 90% is junk and 10% is functional for such distant relatives, then DNA similarity should be around 10% + ¼×90% = 32.5%. Not around 50%.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1084 by Taq, posted 03-16-2023 6:49 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1087 by AZPaul3, posted 03-16-2023 7:09 PM sensei has not replied
 Message 1092 by Taq, posted 03-17-2023 10:56 AM sensei has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1086 of 1197 (908583)
03-16-2023 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1064 by Dredge
03-16-2023 7:51 AM


Cult Of The Darwinoids:Topic Synopsis
There are a lot of science y things that I dont fully understand as I read through these arguments. Perhaps you can Dredge up some insight for me!
First of all, why do you call "them" Darwinoids? Charles Darwin was but one scientist who happened to originate a theory. He is hardly the Einstein or Edison of Biology! Am I wrong?
Dredge writes:
Satan will not allow the scientific world to take creationism and ID seriously.
Are you suggesting that ole Slew foot messes with peoples heads or are you suggesting that he mixes up the evidence?
Our very own dwise1 is one of the EvC members whom I respect and admire. He has a website where he has argued and investigated the claims of Creationists for 37 years. I dont agree with him on everything but I respect him because he respects us. He will take the time to write a detailed lengthy post filled with anecdotes from a life well lived. Furthermore, the God whom I believe exists (through the character of Jesus Christ) is present on this planet today. What many people (especially Authoritarian Catholics and Protestants) would find implausible is the idea that Jesus uses dwise1 to get us to think. God works in mysterious ways, Dredge.
Now...what were you saying about "Darwinoids"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1064 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 7:51 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1112 by Dredge, posted 03-22-2023 1:27 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 1113 by Dredge, posted 03-22-2023 1:28 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1116 by Dredge, posted 03-22-2023 2:07 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 1117 by Dredge, posted 03-22-2023 4:14 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 1118 by Dredge, posted 03-22-2023 5:54 AM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1087 of 1197 (908584)
03-16-2023 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1085 by sensei
03-16-2023 6:55 PM


Re: Typical?
Why 1/4 DNA? You are talking DNA? It is ALL DNA: junk + functional.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1085 by sensei, posted 03-16-2023 6:55 PM sensei has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1088 of 1197 (908586)
03-16-2023 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1045 by sensei
03-16-2023 5:33 AM


Re: Typical?
My new topic proposal is a model for point mutations in neutral DNA, where mutations do not give benefit or disadvantage to the individual.
What conclusions do you draw from this data?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1045 by sensei, posted 03-16-2023 5:33 AM sensei has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1089 of 1197 (908606)
03-17-2023 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1073 by Granny Magda
03-16-2023 12:15 PM


Re: Typical?
Science is too puny and shallow to even detect Satan's existence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1073 by Granny Magda, posted 03-16-2023 12:15 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1090 by Theodoric, posted 03-17-2023 8:38 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1091 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2023 9:49 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1093 by Granny Magda, posted 03-17-2023 11:32 AM Dredge has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1090 of 1197 (908610)
03-17-2023 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1089 by Dredge
03-17-2023 12:52 AM


Re: Typical?
Off topic

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1089 by Dredge, posted 03-17-2023 12:52 AM Dredge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1091 of 1197 (908612)
03-17-2023 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1089 by Dredge
03-17-2023 12:52 AM


Re: Typical?
Science is too puny and shallow to even detect Satan's existence.
That is my fault. As we know the human mind is so powerful we can vanquish any gods and their minions to oblivion with a simple thought.
I did that to your god ages ago and your satan disappeared along with him. Poof!
Science cannot find something that isn't there. All science can do now is note the lack of evidence and conclude that your god and his satan are nowhere to be found and, infact, never were.
I know, I took away your pet demon and eating all your jesus-meat crackers hasn't brought him back to you. I realize this makes you sad and lonely. Such is the religious life devoid of reality. That was your choice.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1089 by Dredge, posted 03-17-2023 12:52 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1094 by Dredge, posted 03-18-2023 10:39 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 1119 by Dredge, posted 03-22-2023 6:01 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 1123 by Dredge, posted 03-22-2023 7:00 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 1092 of 1197 (908613)
03-17-2023 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1085 by sensei
03-16-2023 6:55 PM


Re: Typical?
sensei writes:
If 90% is junk and 10% is functional for such distant relatives, then DNA similarity should be around 10% + ¼×90% = 32.5%. Not around 50%.
Are you referring to the urban legend that humans and bananas share 50% of their DNA? I hope you realize that humans and bananas don't share 50% of their DNA. At best, humans and bananas share 50% of their genes, although that is even questionable. Of the genes that are shared, there are going to be bases that are different.
Added in edit:
An article worth reading:
quote:
The second thing to keep in mind is that genes, which are the regions of the DNA that code for these proteins, only make up 2 percent of your DNA.
For this particular experiment, scientists first looked at the sequences of genes in a typical banana genome. "We then used these DNA sequences to predict the amino acid sequence of all the proteins that would be made from those genes," Brody says, noting that the protein sequences were placed in a file. "We then did the same process for all human genes."
Next, the scientists compared the protein sequence from each banana gene to every human gene. "The program compares how similar the sequence of the banana genes are to each human gene," he says, noting that the degree of similarity could range 0 to 100 percent. "The program kept any matches that were more similar than one would expect by chance." The program continued doing this, gene by gene.
All told, more than 4 million comparisons were done, resulting in about 7,000 best "hits" between the two genomes. Then, the percent similarity score for each of those hits was averaged. "This gave us the result of about 40 percent," he says. "This is the average similarity between proteins (gene products), not genes." Gene products or proteins are the biochemical material resulting from a gene becoming functional. "Of course, there are many, many genes in our genome that do not have a recognizable counterpart in the banana genome and vice versa."
Do People and Bananas Really Share 50 Percent of the Same DNA? | HowStuffWorks

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1085 by sensei, posted 03-16-2023 6:55 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1167 by sensei, posted 04-06-2023 1:08 AM Taq has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


(3)
Message 1093 of 1197 (908619)
03-17-2023 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1089 by Dredge
03-17-2023 12:52 AM


Re: Typical?
Science is too puny and shallow to even detect Satan's existence.
So science can't detect supernatural entities, got it.
So much for the power of intelligent design then.
Mutate and Survive

On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1089 by Dredge, posted 03-17-2023 12:52 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1095 by Dredge, posted 03-18-2023 10:43 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1094 of 1197 (908662)
03-18-2023 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1091 by AZPaul3
03-17-2023 9:49 AM


Re: Typical?
APauling666 writes:
That is my fault. As we know the human mind is so powerful we can vanquish any gods and their minions to oblivion with a simple thought.
aka wilful denial and delusion. But it ain't that powerful ... any fool can do it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1091 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2023 9:49 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1095 of 1197 (908663)
03-18-2023 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1093 by Granny Magda
03-17-2023 11:32 AM


Re: Typical?
Grumpy Magda writes:
So much for the power of intelligent design then.
ID claims to detect the existence of demons? I didn't know that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1093 by Granny Magda, posted 03-17-2023 11:32 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1107 by Granny Magda, posted 03-19-2023 7:54 AM Dredge has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024