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Author Topic:   The Power of the New Intelligent Design...
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2087
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 481 of 534 (901284)
11-08-2022 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 480 by driewerf
11-08-2022 5:57 AM


driewerf writes:
The sheer fact that there is an alternative explanation - the theory of evolution - that fits all known facts better than yours invalidates your argument (or lack thereof).
If you ask me, the explanatory power of the theory of evolution is seriously overrated. For example, no Darwinist has ever offered me a sensible explanation for how venomous snakes evolved.
How did their hollow fangs evolve? How did their poison glands evolve? How did the connection between their hollow fangs and their poison glands evolve?
How did those snakes survive while the aforementioned system was evolving? Why did that system need to evolve at all, since the snakes had been surviving without it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 480 by driewerf, posted 11-08-2022 5:57 AM driewerf has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by Theodoric, posted 11-08-2022 8:06 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 486 by ringo, posted 11-08-2022 11:02 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 488 by Taq, posted 11-08-2022 11:41 AM Dredge has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7848
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 482 of 534 (901291)
11-08-2022 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
11-08-2022 7:25 AM


Personal incredulity does not override science.
Argument from incredulity - RationalWiki

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 7:25 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 483 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 8:59 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2087
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 483 of 534 (901294)
11-08-2022 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 482 by Theodoric
11-08-2022 8:06 AM


Theodorkic writes:
Personal incredulity does not override science.
That is your best explanation of how venomous snakes evolved? What a pathetic cop-out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Theodoric, posted 11-08-2022 8:06 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 484 by Theodoric, posted 11-08-2022 9:29 AM Dredge has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7848
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 484 of 534 (901296)
11-08-2022 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 483 by Dredge
11-08-2022 8:59 AM


I do not have to explain. You have been given multiple possible scenarios. There is plenty of information on the subject on the internet. There are actual scientific papers(which you will dismiss because of your incredulity) on the subject. Here is a news article on one.
Snakes evolved venom fangs multiple times from wrinkles in their teeth | New Scientist
No matter what info and data are presented you just poo poo it and claim it is not evidence.
You are just a troll, that moves goalposts all over and off the field.
All you have is ignorance and logical fallacies. None of your arguments(Correction, you have no arguments) are new. We have seen them before. It is time for the admin and mods to suspend you for a little bit to see if you will come back and discuss in good faith. I am sure you won't because all you are is a troll.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 8:59 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 485 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 10:19 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2087
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 485 of 534 (901297)
11-08-2022 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 484 by Theodoric
11-08-2022 9:29 AM


Theodorkic writes:
I do not have to explain.
Darwinists don't have to explain anything - they just make up stories. Whoever comes up with the best story, wins.
You have been given multiple possible scenarios. There is plenty of information on the subject on the internet. There are actual scientific papers(which you will dismiss because of your incredulity) on the subject. Here is a news article on one.
Snakes evolved venom fangs multiple times from wrinkles in their teeth | New Scientist
That article is a pathetic joke ... credulous atheist fools clutching at straws.
No matter what info and data are presented you just poo poo it and claim it is not evidence.
It's not my fault that the theory of evolution is a simplistic nineteenth century idea that is hopelessly inadequate, and that Darwinists are too blind and stupid to see it.
You are just a troll
I've noticed that you call every creationist on this site a "troll". At least you're being consistent ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by Theodoric, posted 11-08-2022 9:29 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 487 by ringo, posted 11-08-2022 11:06 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 489 by Theodoric, posted 11-08-2022 11:53 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 486 of 534 (901301)
11-08-2022 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
11-08-2022 7:25 AM


Dredge writes:
For example, no Darwinist has ever offered me a sensible explanation for how venomous snakes evolved.
No IDist has ever offered a sensible explanation for WHY a Designer would design poisonous snakes. Or parasitic worms.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 7:25 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 495 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 11-10-2022 2:52 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 487 of 534 (901302)
11-08-2022 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 485 by Dredge
11-08-2022 10:19 AM


Dredge writes:
Darwinists don't have to explain anything - they just make up stories. Whoever comes up with the best story, wins.
The story that best fits the evidence wins. And isn't it funny that scientists from every religion agree on what the best story is?
Dredge writes:
It's not my fault that the theory of evolution is a simplistic nineteenth century idea ....
You're the one who's stuck in the nineteenth century. Read something up-to-date.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 485 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 10:19 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 490 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 3:57 PM ringo has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 488 of 534 (901308)
11-08-2022 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
11-08-2022 7:25 AM


Dredge writes:
If you ask me, the explanatory power of the theory of evolution is seriously overrated. For example, no Darwinist has ever offered me a sensible explanation for how venomous snakes evolved.
There will always be specific adaptations that we don't have a specific answer for. That's just the nature of science in general. No scientist is claiming they are omniscient, or that any theory can explain everything. That's why scientists continue to do research. Perhaps this is why you prefer religious explanations where people claim complete and dogmatic knowledge without needing to do things like have evidence or do the research.
What you ignore is what evolution does explain. For example, it explains why we see more transitions than transversions when we compare the human and chimp genome. It explains why there is more sequence conservation in exons than in introns. It explains why we see a nested hierarchy. It explains the distribution of species across the globe. It explains the patterns found in the fossil record. It explains why we can find the same ERV's at the same bases in the genomes of multiple species. It can explain why the LTR's of those same ERV's diverge and produce a phylogeny. Evolution explains massive mountains of observations, most of which I suspect you aren't even aware of.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 7:25 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 491 by Dredge, posted 11-09-2022 2:12 PM Taq has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7848
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 489 of 534 (901311)
11-08-2022 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 485 by Dredge
11-08-2022 10:19 AM


Still trolling
That article is a pathetic joke ... credulous atheist fools clutching at straws.
Anyone actually interested in discovering facts and answers would at least read the abstract to the original research. The article provides a link to it. We know you will never read it, as we also know you won't be able to comprehend it. A troll would just handwave it as propaganda.
I have no reason to think any of the authors are atheists. Why would you? Are you going to use the No True Scotsman fallacy now?
Yes, all of the creationists we have on this site are trolls. None of you provide actual evidence or a logical argument.
Even if evolution is shown to be false, that does not mean creationism is true. Then again the TOE is an extremely robust scientific theory and no one has presented any evidence or even a viable hypothesis to overturn it. You and kleinman are actually quite pitiful compared to others we have seen here.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 485 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 10:19 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2087
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 490 of 534 (901345)
11-08-2022 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 487 by ringo
11-08-2022 11:06 AM


ringo writes:
isn't it funny that scientists from every religion agree on what the best story is?
No, it's not funny at all ... it's actually quite sad that otherwise intelligent people accept a scientific theory as dubious as ToE.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 487 by ringo, posted 11-08-2022 11:06 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 492 by ringo, posted 11-09-2022 3:00 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2087
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 491 of 534 (901414)
11-09-2022 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 488 by Taq
11-08-2022 11:41 AM


Dredge writes:
If you ask me, the explanatory power of the theory of evolution is seriously overrated. For example, no Darwinist has ever offered me a sensible explanation for how venomous snakes evolved.
Taq writes:
There will always be specific adaptations that we don't have a specific answer for. That's just the nature of science in general. No scientist is claiming they are omniscient, or that any theory can explain everything. That's why scientists continue to do research.
Well, until their research provides a sensible explanation of how venomous snakes evolved, for example, I will continue to consider ToE to be inadequate.
Taq writes:
What you ignore is what evolution does explain ... It explains the patterns found in the fossil record.
Oh, you mean like the pattern evident in the Cambrian explosion, for example ... dozens of novel Phyla appearing relatively suddenly without any evidence of evolutionary ancestors?
LOL!!
What you ignore is what evolution does explain
What Darwinists ignore is what ToE doesn't explain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 488 by Taq, posted 11-08-2022 11:41 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 493 by ringo, posted 11-09-2022 3:03 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 494 by Taq, posted 11-09-2022 3:48 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 496 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 11-10-2022 3:00 AM Dredge has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 492 of 534 (901420)
11-09-2022 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 490 by Dredge
11-08-2022 3:57 PM


Dredge writes:
... it's actually quite sad that otherwise intelligent people accept a scientific theory as dubious as ToE.
Isn't it funny that those "otherwise intelligent people" can cure diseases, get us to the moon and back, etc.? Why does it take an idiot like you to understand that the ToE is wrong?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Dredge, posted 11-08-2022 3:57 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 493 of 534 (901421)
11-09-2022 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 491 by Dredge
11-09-2022 2:12 PM


]qs=Dredge]Well, until their research provides a sensible explanation of how venomous snakes evolved...[/qs] They have.
Dredge writes:
... I will continue to consider ToE to be inadequate.
Nobody cares what you think.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Dredge, posted 11-09-2022 2:12 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 511 by Dredge, posted 11-13-2022 6:09 PM ringo has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 494 of 534 (901423)
11-09-2022 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 491 by Dredge
11-09-2022 2:12 PM


Dredge writes:
Well, until their research provides a sensible explanation of how venomous snakes evolved, for example, I will continue to consider ToE to be inadequate.
So even though there is mountains of evidence, you won't accept the theory because it doesn't have a very narrow explanation for one adaptation in one set of species. Got it.
Oh, you mean like the pattern evident in the Cambrian explosion, for example ... dozens of novel Phyla appearing relatively suddenly without any evidence of evolutionary ancestors?
How do you determine that a fossil has no evolutionary ancestors?
The theory of evolution predicts that we should find the earliest branches in the tree of life in the earliest fossil bearing strata. Wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what we see.
What Darwinists ignore is what ToE doesn't explain.
What evidence are we ignoring?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Dredge, posted 11-09-2022 2:12 PM Dredge has not replied

  
MrIntelligentDesign
Member
Posts: 165
Joined: 09-21-2015


Message 495 of 534 (901438)
11-10-2022 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 486 by ringo
11-08-2022 11:02 AM


Wow, this thread had discussed many things. Supposed to be, this is only for the Intelligent Design and its Arguments.
Well, why God (as one of many ID candidates) designed snakes and worms, etc?
Just to kill.
If there is no sin or error of existence (error in intelligence), there will be no poisonous snakes or no killings...
Intelligence gives life, violations of intelligence kill. Thus it predicts that there was a time in the history of humanity or earth that humans had violated intelligence and become stupid.
Now, enjoy the First Argument of the Intelligent Design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAzPyb3ppcw&t=40s

This message is a reply to:
 Message 486 by ringo, posted 11-08-2022 11:02 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by ringo, posted 11-10-2022 10:52 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

  
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