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Author Topic:   The Power of the New Intelligent Design...
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 301 of 1197 (893071)
03-25-2022 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by AZPaul3
03-25-2022 10:31 AM


Re: The Thing.
A lightbub came on in my head! (Could be a lyric for a song)
Edited by Tanypteryx, : had to correct the spelling of lightbub

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by AZPaul3, posted 03-25-2022 10:31 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by AZPaul3, posted 03-25-2022 10:42 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 302 of 1197 (893072)
03-25-2022 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by MrIntelligentDesign
03-25-2022 4:54 AM


Re: But is Any of Your Stuff Googly, MrID?
What is evolution? Simply put, evolution is non-intentional change in biological world.
This is wrong!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 03-25-2022 4:54 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-15-2022 4:04 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 303 of 1197 (893073)
03-25-2022 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by Tanypteryx
03-25-2022 10:34 AM


Re: The Thing.
had to correct the spelling of lightbub
And I note you still didn't get it right.
I'm not the only one having fun here this morning.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-25-2022 10:34 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-25-2022 10:50 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 304 of 1197 (893074)
03-25-2022 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by AZPaul3
03-25-2022 10:42 AM


Re: The Thing.
My best friend used to live in Alabama and he said that everyone there said lightbub...and Farfly. And English is my 1st language...

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by AZPaul3, posted 03-25-2022 10:42 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by AZPaul3, posted 03-25-2022 11:06 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 305 of 1197 (893075)
03-25-2022 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by Tanypteryx
03-25-2022 10:50 AM


Re: The Thing.
Oh god, I am so slow sometimes.
You spelled it right to begin with then had to go back and correct it. Now I understand.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-25-2022 10:50 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-25-2022 11:09 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 306 of 1197 (893076)
03-25-2022 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by AZPaul3
03-25-2022 11:06 AM


Re: The Thing.
Context is everything.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by AZPaul3, posted 03-25-2022 11:06 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by jar, posted 03-25-2022 1:35 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 307 of 1197 (893078)
03-25-2022 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by Tanypteryx
03-25-2022 11:09 AM


Re: The Thing.
And pot plants is two different things depending on whether your in California or Georgia.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-25-2022 11:09 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 308 of 1197 (893096)
03-26-2022 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by MrIntelligentDesign
03-13-2022 1:22 PM


If you're willing to postulate that all these miraculous creations are being done year after year for millions, billions of years, then that will indeed explain everything.
HOWEVER, the same can be said of the explanation that the universe was created January first of this year, with memories implanted in all our minds to make us think that there had once been (for example) Mao Tse-Tung, Mansa Musa, Metternich and Michael Jackson.
But it doesn't make sense to believe that the universe was created January first. Just as your sequence of zillions of miraculous creations makes no sense. Especially since scientists have actually observed new species evolving over time.
- A new species of Buffalo grass evolved that can tolerate soil contaminated with mine tailings.
(go to page 2 of http://education.nationalgeographic.com/...opedia/speciation)
- The worm Nereis acuminata (JSTOR: Access Check)
- Madeira island house mice Speciation: more evidence ignored by intelligent design | Nondiscovery Blog
and Are new species still evolving? › Ask an Expert (ABC Science))
- A flower called the "American goatsbeard" (Evolution: Watching Speciation Occur | Observations - Scientific American Blog Network)
Do a web search on "examples of observed speciation" to find more examples, if you like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 03-13-2022 1:22 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 309 of 1197 (893132)
03-28-2022 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by MrIntelligentDesign
03-25-2022 5:52 AM


Bump for Mr.ID
You have yet to answer.
Again, I’ve got this thing. How do I tell using you new IDv2 if it is created or natural?
What is the first step? There has to be an initial step in any process. What is yours?
It really is a simple question. Thing … created or natural? What is IDv2’s first move?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 03-25-2022 5:52 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by ringo, posted 03-28-2022 12:03 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 311 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 03-30-2022 1:28 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 310 of 1197 (893140)
03-28-2022 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by AZPaul3
03-28-2022 9:14 AM


Re: Bump for Mr.ID
AZPaul3 writes:
What is IDv2’s first move?
Changing the subject.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by AZPaul3, posted 03-28-2022 9:14 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
MrIntelligentDesign
Member (Idle past 308 days)
Posts: 248
Joined: 09-21-2015


Message 311 of 1197 (893166)
03-30-2022 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by AZPaul3
03-28-2022 9:14 AM


Re: Bump for Mr.ID
Again, I’ve got this thing. How do I tell using you new IDv2 if it is created or natural?
ANSWER: Use the Universal Boundary Line (UBL) from the new ID.
What is the first step? There has to be an initial step in any process. What is yours?
ANSWER: I do not know the "thing = X", so the only tool for categorization of the "thing = X" is your basic sensory systems. Then, look for any features (X') on that X resembled similar to human design, since humans always compare all X to humans made X. Start from that, then, as you dig further about X, you can just eliminate all human-made-error of X' that you have listed,
In the UBL, it states that if
intellen, then, you could find two or more supports/features (X') to that X. If not, if naturen, the X' will become 1, the X is natural (non-intelligently designed).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by AZPaul3, posted 03-28-2022 9:14 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by WookieeB, posted 03-30-2022 3:03 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied
 Message 315 by AZPaul3, posted 03-31-2022 7:02 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

  
WookieeB
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: 01-18-2019


Message 312 of 1197 (893172)
03-30-2022 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 311 by MrIntelligentDesign
03-30-2022 1:28 AM


Re: Bump for Mr.ID
I still cannot understand anything MrID is talking about. He needs to define his terms before he starts using them.
@MrID - What is "naturen" and "intellen"? Those are not English words. I realize "naturen" is a non-english word (meaning: Nature), but if you are explaining in English, just use the English word.
What is the categorization you are trying to make? And how are you defining "Design"? And what is all this referencing of "X" you are doing. You are not being consistent.
---
As for the old-ID, I do not see a problem with it. So I was curious to see the following list, and would like to see an how this is actual, instead of the strawman it appears to be.
ID's failure to take into account naturally occurring complexity by trying to equate complexity with "design" even though naturally occurring complexity is so much more complex than designed complexity could ever hope to be. That would also include how the most common characteristic of a product of evolutionary processes is high levels of complexity, such that if you find something in nature that is highly complex then that is evidence that it had evolved.
ID's fatal confusion of science's practice of methodological materialism ("We are incapable of working with the supernatural, so we do not include it.") with philosophical materialism ("The natural universe is all there is.").
ID's political and social agenda to transform science by forcing it to include the supernatural. Their motivation in pushing that travesty comes from the previous point in which they are unable to understand how science works.
ID having to always resort to explaining everything away with "God Did It" (AKA "goddidit"). More specifically, they point out how highly complex something is such that they have difficulty explaining it completely, so they jump to their go-to "conclusion" of "goddidit".
Of course, that "answer" not only answers nothing at all, but it also blocks any further investigation of that question. As we discussed in my topic, So Just How is ID's Supernatural-based Science Supposed to Work? (SUM. MESSAGES ONLY), "goddidit" effectively kills science.
ID's worship of the God of the Gaps. This view argues that finding natural explanations for things works to disprove God, which would mean that our inability to explain something works to prove God. That would lead to an agenda which strives to preserve ignorance and to impede the growth of knowledge. Note that this worship of the God of the Gaps is also quite common among YECs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 03-30-2022 1:28 AM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by nwr, posted 03-30-2022 3:20 PM WookieeB has not replied
 Message 314 by PaulK, posted 03-30-2022 3:52 PM WookieeB has not replied
 Message 470 by dwise1, posted 06-18-2022 7:48 PM WookieeB has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 313 of 1197 (893174)
03-30-2022 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by WookieeB
03-30-2022 3:03 PM


Re: Bump for Mr.ID
I still cannot understand anything MrID is talking about. He needs to define his terms before he starts using them.
That fair. He doesn't understand it either.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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 Message 312 by WookieeB, posted 03-30-2022 3:03 PM WookieeB has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 314 of 1197 (893177)
03-30-2022 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by WookieeB
03-30-2022 3:03 PM


Re: Bump for Mr.ID
It’s not great but it seems a lot better than most of his output.
If ID is so great why is the little science done by ID people so devoted to trying to knock holes in evolutionary theory. Why hasn’t ID produced a positive theory to replace evolution ? You can’t really think that a movement that embraces everything from Young Earth Creationism to evolution but with God occasionally throwing useful mutations into the mix is actually going anywhere.

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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 315 of 1197 (893196)
03-31-2022 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 311 by MrIntelligentDesign
03-30-2022 1:28 AM


No Help. Let's Try Again.
ANSWER: Use the Universal Boundary Line (UBL) from the new ID.
Fine. What is that? How do I use that? What do I do?
ANSWER: I do not know the "thing = X", so the only tool for categorization of the "thing = X" is your basic sensory systems. Then, look for any features (X') on that X resembled similar to human design, since humans always compare all X to humans made X. Start from that, then, as you dig further about X, you can just eliminate all human-made-error of X' that you have listed,
In the UBL, it states that if
intellen, then, you could find two or more supports/features (X') to that X. If not, if naturen, the X' will become 1, the X is natural (non-intelligently designed).
So your new ID2.0 system is to look at the thing and see if there are any obvious signs of design.
Like what? What attributes would be seen as ‘designed’ versus what attributes would be seen as ‘not designed’?
Is it all your personal feeling or is there a rigorous set of rules like in a real science hypothesis? And what’s this human made error stuff? An error in what? What does that look like? How would I recognize an error?
I’m not getting anywhere. Your write-up is no help.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 03-30-2022 1:28 AM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

Replies to this message:
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