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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9265
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 481 of 563 (918364)
04-28-2024 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 478 by Phat
04-28-2024 10:58 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
But you did not pay for your house. I can't imagine how much better I, and most people, would be if we were given a home. I certainly would not be poor.
Yes, this is a moral judgement. Something you are quick to give but loathe to accept.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by Phat, posted 04-28-2024 10:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9265
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 482 of 563 (918365)
04-28-2024 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by Percy
04-28-2024 11:30 AM


Re: Chicken Little Costs More In Inflated Terms
The video is from Bald Guy Money. Who isn't going to trust him?
Who is this guy? What is his expertise? Why should we believe him?
All questions Phat not only won't answer and can't answer, but questions he has never even conceived.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by Percy, posted 04-28-2024 11:30 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 483 by Phat, posted 04-28-2024 3:44 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 483 of 563 (918366)
04-28-2024 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Theodoric
04-28-2024 3:10 PM


Re: Chicken Little Costs More In Inflated Terms
I dont swear on every word he says, but he makes a case and uses charts from the FDIC to back up his case.
An inverted yield curve is when short term T Bills mature higher than long term T Bills and usually indicates a recession in the future.
I assimilate information differently than you do. You demand data. You need to see college degrees. You trust government "experts". I do not take notes. I listen to many sources but tend to avoid the ones that most of the peanut gallery consider well informed and trustworthy. I believe that our government does not give us any information that would
cause panic, even if the information had validity. Of course precious metals advocates and salesman will push that narrative, and are not afraid of ruffling feathers.
I do not dismiss them only for that reason, however. Why should I expect them to lie in order to sell their product and not expect a government "expert" to do essentially the same thing. Sell the product. Build Back Better.
What *is* the product, however? Is it the United States and what we stand for? Is it Democracy? Is it the Western financial system in general? I am unafraid to ask myself these questions as I question the party line narrative.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Theodoric, posted 04-28-2024 3:10 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 484 by Theodoric, posted 04-28-2024 4:48 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 485 by Tangle, posted 04-28-2024 5:12 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 486 by Percy, posted 04-28-2024 5:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9265
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 484 of 563 (918367)
04-28-2024 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by Phat
04-28-2024 3:44 PM


Re: Chicken Little Costs More In Inflated Terms
How long have we been in an inverted yield curve?
The government is not selling you anything. The charlatans are. The rest if your post is word salad.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by Phat, posted 04-28-2024 3:44 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9524
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 485 of 563 (918369)
04-28-2024 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by Phat
04-28-2024 3:44 PM


Re: Chicken Little Costs More In Inflated Terms
Phat writes:
I assimilate information differently than you do. You demand data. You need to see college degrees. You trust government "experts". I do not take notes. I listen to many sources but tend to avoid the ones that most of the peanut gallery consider well informed and trustworthy.
And how has that worked out for you?
‚Äč

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by Phat, posted 04-28-2024 3:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22565
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 486 of 563 (918371)
04-28-2024 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by Phat
04-28-2024 3:44 PM


Re: Chicken Little Costs More In Inflated Terms
Phat in Message 483 writes:
I dont swear on every word he says, but he makes a case and uses charts from the FDIC to back up his case.
Look up the FDIC charts, include them in your message, then use them as your data for presenting an argument for the case you're trying to make.
An inverted yield curve is when short term T Bills mature higher than long term T Bills and usually indicates a recession in the future.
No one here believes you're describing your understanding of an inverted yield curve. Everyone here believes you looked it up. It's not quite right anyway. We know what you meant when you said "mature higher," but what you really wanted to say is that short term T-Bills currently have a higher yield than long term.
I assimilate information differently than you do.
No one cares how you assimilate information. What matters is that you don't actually assimilate information. What you do is parrot YouTube videos that resonate with you for reasons having nothing to do with any understanding of the real world.
You demand data.
It's in the Forum Guidelines.
You need to see college degrees. You trust government "experts".
No we don't. No one here is committing the fallacy of argument from authority. Yes, your intelligence is being impeached and you feel the need to defend yourself, but false accusations cannot accomplish that. All that does is impeach your integrity.
Guess who the only person to mention Janet Yellen is in this thread? You. Guess who the only person to mention Paul Krugman is? You. Other mentions are only responses to you.
Why should I expect them to lie in order to sell their product and not expect a government "expert" to do essentially the same thing. Sell the product. Build Back Better.
Build Back Better is a slogan. If you would like to describe for us how government experts are lying to us then begin presenting your evidence.
What *is* the product, however? Is it the United States and what we stand for? Is it Democracy? Is it the Western financial system in general? I am unafraid to ask myself these questions as I question the party line narrative.
I'm sure no one here has any idea what you're on about. You're in some kind of cognitive crisis.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by Phat, posted 04-28-2024 3:44 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 487 of 563 (918384)
04-29-2024 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 478 by Phat
04-28-2024 10:58 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat writes:
I will admit that I am incompetent at finance. That does not mean that I know nothing about how the system works. Nobody has sold me anything except information.
Youtubers make money off of views. It doesn't matter if what they say is true or not, the money per view is the same.
The philosophy behind this topic is the soundness of investments in an ever changing world.
My way of handling this is to buy into mutual funds or similar financial products. Let the experts decide what to invest in, then profit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by Phat, posted 04-28-2024 10:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 488 by Phat, posted 04-30-2024 8:46 AM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 488 of 563 (918396)
04-30-2024 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 487 by Taq
04-29-2024 11:25 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Taq writes:
Let the experts decide what to invest in, then profit.
Note that the East has its experts and the West traditionally has had theirs. The more I dig the more I find that the topic is political as well as financial. It was the government that weaponized the US dollar, not Wall Street. It was the whales of either political persuasion that began to bet against the dollar rather than with the dollar. One prominant whale, Warren Buffet, was warned to not go public on his investment habits with silver due to fears that his opinion could crash the market. The United States government wants to control the market for two reasons.
  • Gold and Silver are counter cyclical to the US Dollar. A major move in those markets threatens economic stability.
  • The US military uses a lot of silver and it would be in the best interests of the military budget for the supply to be available and ideally cheap when needed.
    Yet it was a Democrat (FDR) who initially directly interfered in the market trade of both gold and silver to stabilize the economy in 1933.
    It was a Republican(Nixon) who separated Gold from the dollar in 1971, a move that was said at the time to be "temporary".
    It was a Republican (Ford) who made it legal to own gold again for the general public. Free enterprise should override government control, in my opinion.
    It was a Republican administration who linked the dollar back up with a solid commodity (Kissinger and the petrodollar) and stabilized it(the dollar)
    The OPEC oil embargo's and OPEC were very much political tools.
    If the Republicans have any sway, the government will steer clear of the COMEX.
    If the Dems have the power, the digital currencies, mandatory taxation and price controls, and excessive government oversight will rile up many a patriot.
    Its like weaponizing the dollar against the precious metal commodities and against your own people.
    And in my opinion, it is like jingoistic patriotism overriding the free markets. Better that we all be sheeple and let the experts guide our investments.
    A government should not be able to nationalize precious metals any more than nationalizing water or air. Im not a full blooded Republican but I am for smaller or more limited scope of government powers and am grateful for a free market economy rather than one choked with manipulation and oversight.
    Thats my rant for this morning...

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 487 by Taq, posted 04-29-2024 11:25 AM Taq has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 489 by Taq, posted 04-30-2024 12:23 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 490 by Theodoric, posted 04-30-2024 2:03 PM Phat has replied

      
    Taq
    Member
    Posts: 10139
    Joined: 03-06-2009
    Member Rating: 5.5


    Message 489 of 563 (918401)
    04-30-2024 12:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 488 by Phat
    04-30-2024 8:46 AM


    Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
    Phat writes:
    And in my opinion, it is like jingoistic patriotism overriding the free markets. Better that we all be sheeple and let the experts guide our investments.
    I trust greed as an incentive. The better a mutual fund does the more people will invest and the more money the mutual fund managers will make. There's nothing jingoistic or patriotic about it. Although, to be honest, I don't think I would buy into a fund that is heavy into foreign investments. This is a risk assessment more than anything else.
    The other option would be spend months and years learning about different investment strategies, and then spending time every week or every day assessing my portfolio. It just seems like a better idea to let the people who have put in the effort to learn the best strategies for investment invest my money for me, and then pay them a fee. At any time I could move my money to a fund that is getting better yields.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 488 by Phat, posted 04-30-2024 8:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9265
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 3.3


    Message 490 of 563 (918405)
    04-30-2024 2:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 488 by Phat
    04-30-2024 8:46 AM


    Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
    Do you understand the what is meant by the term "petrodollar"?
    Do you think that natural resources and public land should be open to exploitation by anyone that wants to?
    Where do you think the right to own things comes from?
    Most of your post is word salad and propaganda and ignored.

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 488 by Phat, posted 04-30-2024 8:46 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 491 by Phat, posted 05-01-2024 3:43 AM Theodoric has replied
     Message 492 by Phat, posted 05-01-2024 3:49 AM Theodoric has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18383
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 491 of 563 (918412)
    05-01-2024 3:43 AM
    Reply to: Message 490 by Theodoric
    04-30-2024 2:03 PM


    Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
    Theo writes:
  • Do you understand the what is meant by the term "petrodollar"?
    No, not offhand without looking it up. I thought that it meant dollars used in oil trade.
  • Do you think that natural resources and public land should be open to exploitation by anyone that wants to?
    If they own the land, yes. Reason being the next question--->
  • Where do you think the right to own things comes from?
    The free market. Certainly not the government "God" would be my preferred answer. And I know that Uncle Sam is not who I worship.
  • And do they really need to tax every single profit anyone makes, no matter the denomination? If your answer is yes, you know why I oppose your politics. Big government will likely get more authoritarian as it attempts to save the dollar from the decline which QE accelerated initially. I will pledge allegience to the flag at every opportunity but I will NEVER worship it.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 490 by Theodoric, posted 04-30-2024 2:03 PM Theodoric has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 493 by Zucadragon, posted 05-01-2024 5:01 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 494 by Theodoric, posted 05-01-2024 9:17 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 496 by Taq, posted 05-01-2024 11:01 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18383
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 492 of 563 (918413)
    05-01-2024 3:49 AM
    Reply to: Message 490 by Theodoric
    04-30-2024 2:03 PM


    Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
    Theo writes:
    Most of your post is word salad and propaganda and ignored.
    I will alert the press that Theodoric ignored my post. It should make the front page!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 490 by Theodoric, posted 04-30-2024 2:03 PM Theodoric has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 495 by Theodoric, posted 05-01-2024 9:18 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Zucadragon
    Member
    Posts: 80
    From: Netherlands
    Joined: 06-28-2006
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 493 of 563 (918415)
    05-01-2024 5:01 AM
    Reply to: Message 491 by Phat
    05-01-2024 3:43 AM


    Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
    Phat:
    And do they really need to tax every single profit anyone makes, no matter the denomination? If your answer is yes, you know why I oppose your politics. Big government will likely get more authoritarian as it attempts to save the dollar from the decline which QE accelerated initially. I will pledge allegience to the flag at every opportunity but I will NEVER worship it.
    Do you really think so? I mean, that seems like you're taking a bit of both worlds, a big complaint about big government is that it offers all kinds of socialist programs that support people in need, roads, support of various kinds. And some people hate the idea of that.
    How do you figure that big government will most likely become more authoritarian?
    And what alternatives are there? Taxation is an easy tool that can be used to redistribute wealth for instance (Like through those social programs), are you one for free market all the way and so called trickle down economics?
    Because the past has shown us repeatedly that earning money over the lives of people becomes the priority, with no rules and regulations, your own life is worth less and life in the big picture.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 491 by Phat, posted 05-01-2024 3:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9265
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 3.3


    Message 494 of 563 (918418)
    05-01-2024 9:17 AM
    Reply to: Message 491 by Phat
    05-01-2024 3:43 AM


    Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
    The main way gov't is funded is through income tax. How else do you suggest we fund gov't?
    Why is the denomination of profit relevant?
    No, not offhand without looking it up. I thought that it meant dollars used in oil trade
    So you continue to use words and concepts you do not understand.
    If they own the land, yes.
    I clearly said public land. Do you understand the concept of public land?
    The free market. Certainly not the government "God" would be my preferred answer. And I know that Uncle Sam is not who I worship.
    But seemingly you worship an entity called the Free Market. The Free Market does not exist without gov't. Do you understand the terms government and free market?
    I will pledge allegience to the flag at every opportunity but I will NEVER worship it.
    Irrelevant, wackadoodle shit. Are you a proponent of the sovereign citizen movement?

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 491 by Phat, posted 05-01-2024 3:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9265
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 3.3


    Message 495 of 563 (918419)
    05-01-2024 9:18 AM
    Reply to: Message 492 by Phat
    05-01-2024 3:49 AM


    Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
    irrelevant and off topic.

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 492 by Phat, posted 05-01-2024 3:49 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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