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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 361 of 668 (917789)
04-16-2024 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
04-16-2024 11:17 AM


Re: Putin and Trump: Co-Conspirators?
Phat writes:
Gold is money...everything else is simply credit.
A $100 bill isn't credit. It's money.
Credit is when someone gives you a $100 bill today and expects you to pay back $110 in future.
FACT: China and India are buying up precious metals at an ever increasing rate.
When they sell their goods to other countries the majority of those payments will be in US dollars.
Its not that gold is going up. It is that fiat currencies are losing value relative to hard assets.
The only reason gold has value is that it can be traded for fiat currencies. If you couldn't trade gold for fiat currencies then people wouldn't buy it in bulk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 04-16-2024 11:17 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 362 of 668 (917791)
04-16-2024 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
04-16-2024 11:17 AM


Re: Putin and Trump: Co-Conspirators?
Did you read the article? Your question will be answered if you actually read the article or just the headline.
Provide evidence about China and India and explain relevance. Also, explain is what is meant by fiat currencies losing value relative to hard assets. Does any of this mean anything or is it word salad?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 04-16-2024 11:17 AM Phat has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2304
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 363 of 668 (917797)
04-16-2024 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
04-16-2024 11:17 AM


Re: Putin and Trump: Co-Conspirators?
Gold is money...everything else is simply credit.
if gold was money you'd be able to slice a piece off a bar and use it to buy groceries. Gold is simply a shiny metal.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 04-16-2024 11:17 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 364 of 668 (917799)
04-16-2024 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
04-16-2024 11:17 AM


Gold Standard
Explain your plan to
  1. Implement a gold backed currency.
  2. Transition to a gold backed currency.
  3. Determine actual cause of loss of value of investments
  4. Compensate for losses incurred by the change.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 04-16-2024 11:17 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 04-17-2024 2:35 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 365 of 668 (917802)
04-17-2024 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by Theodoric
04-16-2024 10:17 PM


Re: Gold Standard
I have no plan (nor have heard of any) to implement a gold backed currency in the United States. We may need to re-institute backing our money with the 8133.46 tons of gold that we purportedly hold. There will be no compensation for the losers of this reset. Empires rise and Empires fall. Ours still has a ways to go, but our easiest years are behind us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Theodoric, posted 04-16-2024 10:17 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by Taq, posted 04-17-2024 10:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 370 by Theodoric, posted 04-17-2024 12:36 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 366 of 668 (917803)
04-17-2024 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Taq
04-16-2024 11:32 AM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics
Taq in Message 360 writes:
Like I have mentioned elsewhere, there really isn't a good alternative to the US dollar. There isn't enough gold in the world to support all international trade.
After reading this article, The Gold Standard: Facts and History (Updated 2024) I saw where the author agreed with you and challenged the ideas of Jim Rickards, one of the people I have heard talk.
Nasdaq.com:
Some analysts such as Jim Rickards believe in the return of the gold standard and have suggested that the BRICS nations are in the process of creating a new gold-backed currency, as evidenced by bulk purchases of gold by the Chinese central bank.
While a reserve currency for the BRICS nations may seem like a logical step for the bloc to facilitate trade between member nations, the likelihood that it will be backed by gold seems nonsensical to most analysts, as CPM Group Managing Director Jeffery Christian told Investing News Network...

As an investment and a part of a balanced portfolio, gold remains a wise choice.
Hard telling which direction the world economies will go...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Taq, posted 04-16-2024 11:32 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by Percy, posted 04-17-2024 7:48 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 368 by Taq, posted 04-17-2024 10:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22700
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 367 of 668 (917807)
04-17-2024 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Phat
04-17-2024 2:56 AM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics
There you go again, trusting what someone says on the Internet. In this case you've somehow chanced across someone with correct information, but what are the odds of that ever happening again?
Phat in Message 366 writes:
Hard telling which direction the world economies will go...
They cannot go to the gold standard because the world money supply is around $50 trillion while the world supply of gold is around $3.5 trillion, and that includes confiscating everyone's jewelry.
What is it about there not being enough gold in the world that you don't understand? How do you not get that this is just one of the things gold sellers make up so as to send people into a state of hysteria so that they buy gold. It is amazing that you have even a single asset left because you are a scam just waiting to happen. Given your recent posts, I'm betting your A1C is off the charts again.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Phat, posted 04-17-2024 2:56 AM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 368 of 668 (917810)
04-17-2024 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Phat
04-17-2024 2:56 AM


Re: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics
Phat writes:
As an investment and a part of a balanced portfolio, gold remains a wise choice.
I agree. A mix of stocks, commodities, and bonds is a good mix for a dependable return. My retirement is all stocks, but that is because I am playing the long game (although 65 is only 15 year away now) so I'm not worried about short term fluctuations. Once I start withdrawing in retirement I will seriously consider commodities like gold and bonds.
Hard telling which direction the world economies will go...
For many aspects, that is true. However, it isn't hard to figure out that the gold standard is dead in the water. Gold could play a minor role in specific trades between specific nations, but there is no chance that gold is going to replace fiat currencies across the world. Gold simply can't physically replace fiat currencies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Phat, posted 04-17-2024 2:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 369 of 668 (917811)
04-17-2024 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 365 by Phat
04-17-2024 2:35 AM


Re: Gold Standard
Phat writes:
We may need to re-institute backing our money with the 8133.46 tons of gold that we purportedly hold. There will be no compensation for the losers of this reset.
That would wipe out about 95% of wealth in the entire country. Why would you do that?
Current US dollar supply is 20 trillion. Our gold reserves are 500 billion.
Empires rise and Empires fall. Ours still has a ways to go, but our easiest years are behind us.
The quickest way to collapse the US economy would be to institute a gold standard. 95% of money gone in an instant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 04-17-2024 2:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 370 of 668 (917817)
04-17-2024 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Phat
04-17-2024 2:35 AM


Re: Gold Standard
How can you advocate for something that you have no plan for?
You really should learn a little about economics and finance before you spout shit.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 04-17-2024 2:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 371 of 668 (917938)
04-20-2024 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by LamarkNewAge
04-14-2024 1:20 PM


Re: What is the root cause of Inflation?
You and I share a bit of kinship in one regard here at EvC. The peanut gallery is full of elitists who imagine themselves as well educated and imagine us as a bunch of trolls or hillbillies. I have grown to love them (or like them at least ) whereas you are notably getting frustrated and angry with them. Therefore, let the record show that I am directly engaging with you on this topic and that any comments from the peanut gallery will center on points raised during our (LNA & Phat) conversation. That being said...
LamarkNewAge in Message 332 writes:
I always felt that the failure of the political class, to target areas where costs are soaring is the biggest reason.

I have a book of Elizabeth Warren, and she showed price increases, adjusted with core inflation, in various goods and services, since 1984

Most things were somewhat level, but some were out of whack

Childcare was just unreal.

Up 853 percent from 1984 to around 2015.

House prices are the next area that should be tackled.

If I was in charge, I could sink average house prices by half, and daycare by 75 percent.
Before I address your post, allow me to share with you one of the people whom I listen to and who, in my opinion, teaches me a primer on macroeconomics.
The Experts Aren't Telling You This About The Dollar
George Gammon is a 38 year old macro-economist from Puerto Rico. (Im sure that Theo will feverishly google him to expose some flaw in his credentials, but I am sharing this link with you and not him.) Gammon explains global economics and trends in a way that I can understand. He is not trying to sell me anything, though he does have a product known as Rebel Capitalist Live and is comfortable talking about economics and having people pay to listen to him and a host of other speakers...all counter cultural and non-progressive. I have grown to trust much of what this guy says because of how he explains it and how it fits in with the global narrative regarding changing economic and financial trends both in the United States and globally.
Give the video a listen and tell me what you think. For others who are not so inclined, I will explain (and share) part of the transcript if asked.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-14-2024 1:20 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by Theodoric, posted 04-20-2024 9:39 AM Phat has replied
 Message 373 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2024 9:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 375 by Percy, posted 04-20-2024 10:17 AM Phat has replied
 Message 392 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-20-2024 12:31 PM Phat has replied
 Message 393 by DrJones*, posted 04-20-2024 12:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 395 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-20-2024 7:19 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 372 of 668 (917939)
04-20-2024 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Phat
04-20-2024 9:14 AM


Re: What is the root cause of Inflation?
Please post his credentials. You claim he is an economist. What is his education? What is his economist employment history? Is he of Puerto Rican heritage or just born there? Where does he live now?
What makes any of us elitists? How do you define that term? Why are you such a troll?
For the record, I will comment on anything I damn well please.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Phat, posted 04-20-2024 9:14 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Phat, posted 04-20-2024 10:03 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 373 of 668 (917940)
04-20-2024 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Phat
04-20-2024 9:14 AM


Re: What is the root cause of Inflation?
Phat in Message 371 writes:
and imagine us as a bunch of trolls or hillbillies.
Nope, but we see YOUR behavior as increasingly irrational due to uncontrolled diabetes.
The peanut gallery is full of elitists who imagine themselves as well educated
I would love to see you define elitists and show how everyone at EvC who disagrees with you fits that definition.
(Im sure that Theo will feverishly google him to expose some flaw in his credentials
Yep, and we watch you feverishly take every opportunity to demean people who ask you to actually show you understand what you're talking about.
You have a long, long, long list of unanswered questions about just about every single thing you post about finance and economics.
After years of reading your crap, the only thing I can think of that was accurate was that you gambled away your retirement savings.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Phat, posted 04-20-2024 9:14 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 374 of 668 (917941)
04-20-2024 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Theodoric
04-20-2024 9:39 AM


Theo Demands Credentials
Theo writes:
Please post his credentials. You claim he is an economist. What is his education?
Im not going to go very far into the internet to learn anything about credentials. What you dont seem to understand is that there are many smart people who have no degree at all.
Theo writes:
Is he of Puerto Rican heritage or just born there? Where does he live now?
I am unsure of his heritage or birthplace. According to Josh, his assistant, he lives in Medellin, Colombia.
Theo writes:
What makes any of us elitists? How do you define that term?
Good question. Im looking it up. I will try and honestly answer your questions, but I wont play this whole game of what defines credibility. There are many people with relevant degrees that are horrible humans.
AddbyEdit: According to
Wiki writes:
Elitism is the belief or notion that individuals who form an elite, a select group of people with intrinsic and desirable quality such as high intellect, wealth, power, physical attractiveness, notability, special skills, experience, lineage, and other desirable traits. Elites are more perceived to be more constructive to society, and therefore deserving of influence or authority greater than that of others. The term elitism may be used to describe a situation in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people. Beliefs that are in opposition to elitism include egalitarianism, anti-intellectualism, *populism,* and the political theory of pluralism.
Elite theory is the sociological or political science analysis of elite influence in society: elite theorists regard pluralism as a utopian ideal.
Elitism is closely related to social class and what sociologists term "social stratification". In modern Western societies, social stratification is typically defined in terms of three distinct social classes: the upper class, the middle class, and the lower class.
Some synonyms for "elite" might be "upper-class" or "aristocratic", indicating that the individual in question has a relatively large degree of control over a society's means of production. This includes those who gain this position due to socioeconomic means and not personal achievement. However, these terms are misleading when discussing elitism as a political theory, because they are often associated with negative "class" connotations and fail to appreciate a more unbiased exploration of the philosophy.
The way that I use the term is progressive elitists...which are upper middle class as a group and opposed to the "other" group of upper middle class folks who are conservative, populist and/ not as educated (as a rule) but who are usually a hell of a businessman as a group. Elitist progressives, in my mind, are pro American in the sense of Democratic party line values. As a group, elitist progressives are more likely to be secular humanist than Christian, though this is not a rule. They are people like you who appeal to authority (of a relevant degree in a field of study) and who seemingly look down on self taught individuals be they rich or poor. I will admit a degree of bias in my opinion of progressive elitism, but my observations led to coining the progressives at EvC as my beloved "peanut gallery."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Theodoric, posted 04-20-2024 9:39 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by Theodoric, posted 04-20-2024 10:37 AM Phat has replied
 Message 383 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2024 11:21 AM Phat has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22700
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(3)
Message 375 of 668 (917942)
04-20-2024 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Phat
04-20-2024 9:14 AM


Re: What is the root cause of Inflation?
Definitions for how you're using these words:
  • Elitist: someone who thinks he knows what he's talking about and has the evidence to show it
  • Hillbilly: someone who thinks he knows what he's talking about but hasn't a clue nor any evidence nor the ability to interpret evidence presented to him but nonetheless insists his opinions deserve equal consideration
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Phat, posted 04-20-2024 9:14 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by Phat, posted 04-20-2024 10:29 AM Percy has replied

  
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