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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 136 of 178 (904456)
12-30-2022 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Phat
12-30-2022 9:59 AM


Re: Scare Tactics or Simply an Informed Opinion?
No I leave my balls where they belong and my balls have nothing to do with my intelligence and capabilities. Many of the strongest most intelligent people I know have no balls.
This is my subtle way of pointing out the misogyny you portray all the time.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 9:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 137 of 178 (904458)
12-30-2022 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Theodoric
12-30-2022 9:59 AM


Re: Scare Tactics or Simply an Informed Opinion?
Theo writes:
So present a proposal to have the US dollar backed by gold reserves.
Seems silly and not possible, but go ahead and tell us how it would be done.
I dont have anything yet, but I will mention the top holders of gold as being Central Banks and the IMF. Global debt is itself a bubble. There will be a reset. As jar used to always say, "the bill will get paid". It may seem silly to have a dollar backed by gold but it is even sillier to imagine the trust of the public at large being stable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Theodoric, posted 12-30-2022 9:59 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Theodoric, posted 12-30-2022 10:31 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 138 of 178 (904459)
12-30-2022 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Phat
12-30-2022 10:15 AM


Re: Scare Tactics or Simply an Informed Opinion?
So you don't even understand the basics of what you propose and claim. The ridiculousness and impossibility of having a modern currency based on a commodity has been posted out tou in the past. Did you just ignore that? Do you remember expressing support for crypto? What is their value based on?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 10:15 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 139 of 178 (904472)
12-30-2022 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Phat
12-30-2022 9:20 AM


Re: Scare Tactics or Simply an Informed Opinion?
Phat writes:
The world as we know it is competitive before it is cooperative. That's human nature.
Obviously false. Families are cooperative, not competitive. Parents don't typically take the food out of their children's mouths.
(Funny how right-wing nuts claim to be "pro-family", yet they define "human nature" as decidedly anti-family.)
Phat writes:
And don't blame the Republicans when it happens.
What "it" is that? The conspiracy to make a "New World Order"? Who is doing the conspiring?
(By the way, the anti-Semitic conspiracy nuts that I mentioned a while ago, the ones who sounded exactly like you, they were sure that the "New World Order" would come about by the year 2000.)

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 9:20 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 140 of 178 (904473)
12-30-2022 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Phat
12-30-2022 9:27 AM


Re: Scare Tactics or Simply an Informed Opinion?
Phat writes:
You and your extremist (not evidenced) view of Democracy and reality is both authoritarian and disgusting.
You don't know what "authoritarian" means.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 9:27 AM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8898
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 141 of 178 (904477)
12-30-2022 12:54 PM


Hey Phat, how do you feel about billionaire Trump paying sod-all tax? He paid less than you did, does that seem fair to you?
quote:
A great deal of those revelations come from an investigation published by the New York Times in 2020, which obtained two decades of Mr Trump's tax returns from before his time in office. The documents gave unprecedented insight into Mr Trump's businesses.
They revealed he paid little to no federal income taxes over that period, and that Mr Trump had reported in his tax filings that his businesses lost significant amounts of money - despite his public boasts of financial success. In 2017, the Times reported, Trump paid just $750 (£623) in federal income tax despite being a billionaire.
Trump's tax returns are released. It was a long journey - BBC News

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 1:30 PM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 142 of 178 (904479)
12-30-2022 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Tangle
12-30-2022 12:54 PM


Trump Card
You could take 50% of the wealth from the Forbes 400 and barely make a dent in the national debt. That's what irritates me....this huge debt. And it's Democrats as well as Republicans that have created that debt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2022 12:54 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2022 1:37 PM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8898
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 143 of 178 (904480)
12-30-2022 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Phat
12-30-2022 1:30 PM


Re: Trump Card
Phat writes:
You could take 50% of the wealth from the Forbes 400 and barely make a dent in the national debt. That's what irritates me....this huge debt. And it's Democrats as well as Republicans that have created that debt.
So you think it's ok for the super wealthy to pay no tax?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 1:30 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 3:37 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 01-01-2023 12:03 PM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 144 of 178 (904482)
12-30-2022 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Tangle
12-30-2022 1:37 PM


Re: Trump Card
How are you going to tax them? They have legal loopholes. Fair is not the issue. I think its unfair for the middle class to get wiped out simply to help the poor since the rich won't do it if thats what you mean.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2022 1:37 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by xongsmith, posted 12-30-2022 4:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 146 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2022 4:37 PM Phat has replied
 Message 147 by ringo, posted 12-31-2022 11:05 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2402
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 145 of 178 (904487)
12-30-2022 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
12-30-2022 3:37 PM


Re: Trump Card
Phat asks:
How are you going to tax them? They have legal loopholes. Fair is not the issue.
By electing Representatives and Senators who will KILL those FUCKING LOOPHOLES.
Since all Republicans and a good amount of Democrats all suck the Cocks of
the 0.1% richest, we have to start at the beginning. the whole of congress can be replaced in 6 years.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 3:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8898
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


(4)
Message 146 of 178 (904488)
12-30-2022 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
12-30-2022 3:37 PM


Re: Trump Card
Phat writes:
How are you going to tax them?
Before we get into that I'd like to you to say that you don't think it's fair that Trump pays less tax than pretty much anyone in America, including a store supervisor.
They have legal loopholes.
So hire a government that fixes unfair loopholes for the rich.
(I suspect that won't be a Trump-style government.)
Fair is not the issue.
Fair taxation is exactly the issue.
I think its unfair for the middle class to get wiped out simply to help the poor since the rich won't do it if thats what you mean.
You're changing the subject.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 3:37 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Phat, posted 01-01-2023 12:09 PM Tangle has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(5)
Message 147 of 178 (904510)
12-31-2022 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
12-30-2022 3:37 PM


Re: Trump Card
Phat writes:
How are you going to tax them? They have legal loopholes.
Who made the loopholes?
YOU keep electing governments who let assholes like Trump avoid paying taxes. YOU are cutting your own throat, letting the rich get away with robbing you. YOU are Trump's best friend.
Phat writes:
I think its unfair for the middle class to get wiped out simply to help the poor ...
I keep trying to tell you, helping the poor won't hurt you. Wiping out the poor - by making them middle-class - will make taxpayers of them, which will ease your tax burden. Teach a man to fish and you can keep more fish for yourself.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 12-30-2022 3:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 148 of 178 (904560)
01-01-2023 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Tangle
12-30-2022 1:37 PM


Re: Trump Card
Tangle writes:
So you think it's ok for the super wealthy to pay no tax?
Tax them all you want. You still will have an unpayable National Debt. A tax increase for the wealthy wont solve the fiscal problems that a Democratically appointed Federal Reserve has caused. The Democrats will get rightly blamed for the next economic crash.
Raising taxes wont prevent this crises. We lied to ourselves when we thought that fiat currencies were a good idea. Don't listen to me. Ask your revered financial experts. The buck stops with them.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2022 1:37 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Tangle, posted 01-01-2023 1:00 PM Phat has replied
 Message 156 by ringo, posted 01-02-2023 12:26 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 149 of 178 (904561)
01-01-2023 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Tangle
12-30-2022 4:37 PM


Re: Trump Card
tangle writes:
I'd like to you to say that you don't think it's fair that Trump pays less tax than pretty much anyone in America, including a store supervisor.
OK its not fair. My point, however, is that taxing the rich will not and never has been able to fix Democratically created problems. The problem in my mind is that idealogues thought that money could be backed only by the people (globally, perhaps?) and that we would all finally embrace and agree on a kum-ba-yah platform that helps every widow, takes care of every old person, educates every child and keeps *all* of us healthy and allows thieves free reign over the retailers. Poor darlings! Those mean Republicans are to blame!
*sheesh, give me a break!*

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Tangle, posted 12-30-2022 4:37 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8898
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 150 of 178 (904562)
01-01-2023 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Phat
01-01-2023 12:03 PM


Re: Trump Card
Phat writes:
Tax them all you want. You still will have an unpayable National Debt.
You just can't bring yourself to say that people - whoever they are - should pay their fair share of tax can you? You don't actually want a fair society, a Christian society, where people all chip in for the common good at all do you?
A tax increase for the wealthy wont solve the fiscal problems that a Democratically appointed Federal Reserve has caused.
I couldn't care less about the crap that you're obsessing about today, the point is to imagine a fair system and implement it. After that you might find that other things become possible too.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 01-01-2023 12:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 01-02-2023 9:10 AM Tangle has replied

  
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