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Author Topic:   Are You Racist?
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 91 of 114 (898562)
09-26-2022 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
09-26-2022 12:01 PM


Re: Redirecting Political Discussion
Phat writes:
I don't believe that government should "legislate fairness".
What DO you think governments should do?
And conversely, how else will we achieve fairness?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 09-26-2022 12:01 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 09-26-2022 4:13 PM ringo has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 92 of 114 (898580)
09-26-2022 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by ringo
09-25-2022 2:57 PM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
Ringo, you need to understand the meaning of
switcheroo.
Tohuw's primary meaning is "to lie waste."
To lie waste does not prevent secondary interpretations;
such as, desert, worthless thing, or desolate.
Isaiah 45:18 states that the earth was not not created
tohuw.
Now you say that the earth was created as a desert,
worthless thing or desolate, a vacuity
But that directly contradicts Isaiah 45:18 that states
the earth was not created tohuw, or as you say: desert,
worthless thing, or desolate place.
So tohuw in Genesis 1:2 cannot mean what you hope
it means
If tohuw is not the condition that the earth was
created in, then it should be obvious to even the
dimmest among us that tohuw is the condition
earth became.
I don't rely on creationists stories, even though some
are well researched and thought out. My church has
taught me these truths.
You mentioned that Adam and Eve, who had never
experienced death, would not know what death
meant.
Sure they would. God told them.
And, no offense, but Paul, who wrote Romans, has
been known by a good many of people down
through the centuries.
If one of you two is lying, it sure ain't him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by ringo, posted 09-26-2022 10:09 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 93 of 114 (898588)
09-26-2022 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by ringo
09-26-2022 12:27 PM


Re: Redirecting Political Discussion
Through providing equal opportunity to work hard and get paid.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 09-26-2022 12:27 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 09-26-2022 10:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 94 of 114 (898589)
09-26-2022 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by ringo
09-25-2022 2:57 PM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
Also Ringo, tell us what you think happened during
creation week.
Even if you are an atheist, you must have an opinion
of what you think Moses is stating.
Without having your own interpretation of what
happened on each particular day, you carry little
credibility when debating others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 2:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by ringo, posted 09-26-2022 10:20 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 09-27-2022 9:34 AM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 95 of 114 (898601)
09-26-2022 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by candle2
09-26-2022 3:25 PM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
candle2 writes:
Tohuw's primary meaning is "to lie waste."
No. You don't get to decide what the "primary meaning" is. YOU were the one wo (mis)quoted Strong. I just pointed out what Strong actually said.
candle2 writes:
Isaiah 45:18 states that the earth was not not created
tohuw.
It says no such thing:
quote:
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
candle2 writes:
Now you say that the earth was created as a desert,
worthless thing or desolate, a vacuity
I didn't say it. Strong did.
candle2 writes:
But that directly contradicts Isaiah 45:18 that states
the earth was not created tohuw, or as you say: desert,
worthless thing, or desolate place.
I quoted it above. It does not contradict what Strong said.
candle2 writes:
If tohuw is not the condition that the earth was
created in....
Tohuw IS the condition that the earth was created in. But tohuw does NOT mean what you claim it does. You're contradicting your own source.
candle2 writes:
You mentioned that Adam and Eve, who had never
experienced death, would not know what death
meant.

Sure they would. God told them.
You're embellishing again. There's nothing in the story to suggest that God told them anything about death. They would have to have known about it already, from observation of reality, or His threat would have been meaningless.
candle2 writes:
And, no offense, but Paul, who wrote Romans, has
been known by a good many of people down
through the centuries.

If one of you two is lying, it sure ain't him.
Pay attention. I didn't say he was lying. I said he was wrong.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by candle2, posted 09-26-2022 3:25 PM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 96 of 114 (898602)
09-26-2022 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Phat
09-26-2022 4:13 PM


Re: Redirecting Political Discussion
Phat writes:
Through providing equal opportunity to work hard and get paid.
Where do you think minimum wage laws came from? And safe working conditions? (keyword: laws)
And you didn't answer the question: What do you think governments should do?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 09-26-2022 4:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 97 of 114 (898603)
09-26-2022 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by candle2
09-26-2022 4:18 PM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
candle2 writes:
Also Ringo, tell us what you think happened during
creation week.
The story is right there in Genesis 1. But it's just a story. It didn't happen like that.
candle2 writes:
Even if you are an atheist, you must have an opinion
of what you think Moses is stating.
Moses has nothing to do with Genesis1.
candle2 writes:
Without having your own interpretation of what
happened on each particular day, you carry little
credibility when debating others.
I don't need "my own interpretation". YOU do because you have a preconceived notion of what you want it to say. I just go by what it DOES say.
And I'll stack my credibility against yours any day of the week.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by candle2, posted 09-26-2022 4:18 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 98 of 114 (898609)
09-27-2022 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by candle2
09-26-2022 4:18 PM


Burning the Candle at both ends
Candle2 can you help me? I'm trying to keep on topic in all of my posts on various topics. I think that you and I and ringo should discuss this stuff over here: Message 65

Edited by Phat, : just waking up


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by candle2, posted 09-26-2022 4:18 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21264
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(5)
Message 99 of 114 (898633)
09-27-2022 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
09-26-2022 12:01 PM


Re: Redirecting Political Discussion
Phat writes:
Do you support antisemitic or Nazi or pro-Confederacy or white supremacist conservatives?
No. White lives matter too,...
This buys into the conservative racist trope that BLM means that black lives matter and white lives don't.
...but whites have no need to assemble simply to protest injustices towards "whiteness".
So you already understood what I just said, but you recited the racist trope anyway.
We already have the GOB (Good old Boys) network which is slowly dissolving.
The good ole boy network is dissolving just as much as racism is dissolving.
That being said, I am against affirmative action...
Are you against affirmative action specifically, or against any efforts to level the playing field.
...and am watching the implementation of reparations.
You're don't reveal your position on this one, but it would be consistent with your other comments if you were against reparations, which is just another proposal attempting to level the playing field.
I don't believe that government should "legislate fairness".
So you believe it shouldn't be against the law to refuse to sell real estate or rent apartments to blacks? Or to have one water fountain for blacks, another for whites? Or to have white schools and black schools? We should bring back separate but "equal", where equal is in quotes because what was provided to whites was far superior to that for blacks?
It causes the pendulum to swing too far the other way.
The pendulum hasn't budged an inch. Perhaps the language we use has changed, we don't call them niggers anymore, but the attitudes have not.
That's one reason I am a moderate...
You're not a moderate. You're a racist.
I like the pendulum somewhere in the middle.
That would be nice, but the pendulum remains far to the right. If the pendulum were shaped like an arrow it would be pointed at white privilege, white supremacy, and religiously excused discrimination on the basis of race and sexual proclivity.
Are you in favor of the mistreatment of illegal immigrants on the grounds that they're not like us and don't belong here?
No, but I am against any policy that makes it easier to be illegal.
How much harder do you want to make it for people who have already endured hell just to get here? Where does our broken immigration system enter into your equation? What is one to do when the normal immigration process takes months to years, and that's if you're sponsored, but your family is starving now, or the cartel is threatening to kill you now? You have the compassion of devil spawn.
Are you in favor of banning books?
No, but I think that any ideology taught in an institution of higher learning should be challenged in order to develop true critical thinking in students rather than left-wing exclusivity.
The people banning books are religious homophobes, and the books being banned are LGBTQ books in school libraries. No institutions of higher learning are banning books (though I would find it believable about religious institutions). Where did you get that idea from?
Are you against gay marriage?
No. It is a secular issue in a pluralistic society. Furthermore, the church should not interfere except within its own jurisdiction apart from the government.
This is inconsistent with your other views. I have to believe it stems from something in your personal life.
Do you believe in forced birth?
I don't know enough about the issue to comment.
Sure you do. You know exactly what it is, but I'll spell it out for you. Forced birth is what happens when anti-abortion sentiments are codified into law. Forced birth occurs when someone wants an abortion but can't obtain one because it is against the law, and so she is forced to continue the pregnancy to term and give birth. As is happening right now. Some women even live in states where they have to pass through several other states before reaching one where they can obtain an abortion.
Do you believe abortion should be criminalized, even when performed in another state?
No.
Then you are against forced birth, too.
Do you believe the US is a Christian nation?
If the choices were Christian, Muslim, or Secular, I would say that our upbringing was and is largely Christian. That being said, the Moral Majority led to problems for our national politics.
Your "Christian nation" attitudes are obvious. Saying that "our upbringing was and is largely Christian" overstates the case. Only 65% of Americans are Christian, and that number is declining. Less than half of Americans belong to a church of any affiliation, and that number is in decline, too.
The marriage between patriotism and Christianity was not the best idea.
Finally some sanity.
So how did I do?
You're a typical Christian racist who doesn't believe they're racist.
--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Fix quoting error.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 09-26-2022 12:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 100 of 114 (898809)
09-30-2022 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Tanypteryx
09-18-2022 2:22 PM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
Tanyptery, my kids were no more well off than many black
kids. But, they had a father at home who loved them dearly,
and who taught them the values that would help them
succeed in life.
Now they are doing well. And, both of them are deeply involved
in their kid's lives.
Not all fathers are good though. My father shot my mother
to death in front of me before turning the shotgun to his
own head.
I spent the next nine years of my life in an orphange. At the
age of 18 I was told to go, and I had no place to go.
When I first went to the orphanage (Paradise Friendly Home,
in Graves County, KY.) I was scared to death of the other,
larger kids. I would hide in an old 55 gallon barrel for hours
at a time. I did this for numerous days.
I was booted out of the army I couldn't adjust. I went through
much of my life drinking and doing drugs. I was in and out of
jail.
What I needed more than anything was a loving mother and
father. Especially a father to guide me and teach me how to
become a fine young man.
People won't believe this but I eventually I found the father
that I needed. It was and is the heavenly Father.
Those who say one cannot have a relationship with Him are
ignorant beyond words.
And, never assume that just because one is of a certain race
or ethnicity that they are mentally stronger or weaker than the
others.
The greatest predictor of living in povety is the absent of a
father in the home.
One other thing, difficult and trying times can lead to emotional
growth. It can also lead to a more compassionate individual.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-18-2022 2:22 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-30-2022 5:30 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 102 by ringo, posted 09-30-2022 8:28 PM candle2 has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3698
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 101 of 114 (898818)
09-30-2022 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by candle2
09-30-2022 2:05 PM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
You didn't answer my question.
Here it is again.
Tanypteryx writes:
candle2 writes:
If you think that white privileges exists, or that systemic racism exists, show us where.
How would you like it if your children are treated as if they are black or poor, in healthcare, and education, and employment, and housing, and voting, and banking, and law enforcement?
If you had answered you would see where white privilege and system racism exists. Instead you made excuses so you could ignore its existence.
Black children in America with good fathers still have to face systemic racism in healthcare, and education, and employment, and housing, and voting, and banking, and by law enforcement. I guess you've never heard the term, driving while black.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by candle2, posted 09-30-2022 2:05 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by candle2, posted 10-01-2022 9:43 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 102 of 114 (898833)
09-30-2022 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by candle2
09-30-2022 2:05 PM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
candle2 writes:
People won't believe this but I eventually I found the father
that I needed. It was and is the heavenly Father.
It's easy enough to see why you needed a father figure - so much that you made one up.
candle2 writes:
Those who say one cannot have a relationship with Him are
ignorant beyond words.
Of course you can have a "relationship" with an imaginary friend. It's pretty common, especially among children.
For that matter, the reason a lot of marriages fail is because the relationship is largely an idealized fantasy.
candle2 writes:
One other thing, difficult and trying times can lead to emotional
growth. It can also lead to a more compassionate individual.
Or not. A large proportion of prison inmates come from trying times.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by candle2, posted 09-30-2022 2:05 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by candle2, posted 10-01-2022 9:58 AM ringo has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 103 of 114 (898841)
10-01-2022 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Tanypteryx
09-30-2022 5:30 PM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
Tanyptery, you made the assertion white privilege and
racism exists.
I simply asking you to put your money where your mouth is.
Tell us in all your infinite wisdom what privileges I have that
a black person doesn't have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-30-2022 5:30 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by AZPaul3, posted 10-01-2022 12:22 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 108 by Theodoric, posted 10-01-2022 2:45 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 104 of 114 (898842)
10-01-2022 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by ringo
09-30-2022 8:28 PM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
Ringo, many of those who are in prison were raised
without father's.
And just saying that I needed a father figure so
badly that I made one up is nothing more than a
cheap come-back.
Some guy that believes his ancestry consists of
amoeba, hyenas, and chimps has a lot of gall in
trying to convince others about life.
You brain came about by random chance, nothing
but a mutation. It can't be trusted.
Mine was created by God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by ringo, posted 09-30-2022 8:28 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 10-01-2022 10:18 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 106 by ringo, posted 10-01-2022 11:50 AM candle2 has replied
 Message 112 by dwise1, posted 10-02-2022 1:51 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 105 of 114 (898844)
10-01-2022 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by candle2
10-01-2022 9:58 AM


Re: What sort of Ist are you?
Candle2, (and others) perhaps we should remind ourselves that belief in God is a Faith & Belief or Theism topic rather than a racism topic unless perhaps one could start an argument over Biblical Patriarchs and Sexism or slavery in the Bible and/or anti-semitism. That being said, enjoy your coffee, and don't spill any on Percy's carpet.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by candle2, posted 10-01-2022 9:58 AM candle2 has not replied

  
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