Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9170 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: Neptune7
Upcoming Birthdays: Percy
Happy Birthday: ameliajack
Post Volume: Total: 917,267 Year: 4,524/9,624 Month: 299/1,096 Week: 4/119 Day: 4/22 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Coffee House Musing
Dredge
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 346 of 381 (908641)
03-18-2023 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 338 by dwise1
03-17-2023 12:01 PM


Re: YEC's will be scrambling
unwise1 writes:
And who was it who counted out and labeled every single meter tick mark on that 40 million meter tape measure? Not to mention marking off all the centimeter tick marks in each and every one of those 40 million meters. Plus labelling some, if not all, of those centimeters.

Somebody had to have done that!
Now you're just being silly. Grow up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by dwise1, posted 03-17-2023 12:01 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 347 of 381 (908658)
03-18-2023 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by AZPaul3
03-17-2023 10:42 PM


Re: DFTT
APauling666 writes:
You are not one of us.
Thank God for that!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2023 10:42 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by AZPaul3, posted 03-18-2023 11:44 PM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 348 of 381 (908669)
03-18-2023 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by Dredge
03-18-2023 10:20 PM


Re: DFTT
Yes. Exactly.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Dredge, posted 03-18-2023 10:20 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by Dredge, posted 03-19-2023 8:52 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


(1)
Message 349 of 381 (908689)
03-19-2023 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 348 by AZPaul3
03-18-2023 11:44 PM


Re: DFTT
"The heavens declare the glory of God;
the firmament proclaims the works of his hands." (Psalm 19:2-3)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by AZPaul3, posted 03-18-2023 11:44 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by Percy, posted 03-19-2023 9:04 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22555
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


(5)
Message 350 of 381 (908691)
03-19-2023 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by Dredge
03-19-2023 8:52 AM


Re: DFTT
quote:
Splendid and majestic is His work.
  —Psalm 111:3
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Dredge, posted 03-19-2023 8:52 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by Phat, posted 03-19-2023 10:36 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 351 of 381 (908692)
03-19-2023 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by AZPaul3
04-18-2021 8:57 PM


Re: Astronomy
AZCosmos writes:
magine what we are going to find.
Better yet, imagine what data already exists about what we have not even seen yet. Call it the cosmic database.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AZPaul3, posted 04-18-2021 8:57 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 352 of 381 (908693)
03-19-2023 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by Percy
03-19-2023 9:04 AM


Re: DFTT
As Cronkite might say, "And dust the way it is"!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Percy, posted 03-19-2023 9:04 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22555
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 353 of 381 (909372)
04-01-2023 9:43 PM


Theory of Searches
A long while back I read a science fiction novel where the theory of searches featured in one chapter. Apparently such a thing exists now, but back then I think it was made up. The idea was that because of the effect of the theory of searches on the theory of searches that the best way to find someone was to stay in one place and eventually everyone you knew would happen by. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Reading about the 2022 Nobel prize in physics for developments in quantum theory made me recall this.
—Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by xongsmith, posted 04-01-2023 10:38 PM Percy has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2594
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 354 of 381 (909378)
04-01-2023 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Percy
04-01-2023 9:43 PM


Re: Theory of Searches
Percy recalls:
eventually everyone you knew would happen by
maybe it was "everyone you knew who was important to you"?
the Carole King song, "So Far Away", comes to mind, "...doesn't anybody stay in one place anymore?"

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Percy, posted 04-01-2023 9:43 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Percy, posted 04-02-2023 7:55 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22555
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 355 of 381 (909389)
04-02-2023 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 354 by xongsmith
04-01-2023 10:38 PM


Re: Theory of Searches
Interesting. Googling on a laptop is easier than Googling on a phone, so I found it this morning. It was Mindswap by Robert Sheckley. I have a copy, but there are audiobook and hardcopy versions at Amazon. There weren't many hardcopy books I kept when I cleaned house a few years ago, but that was one of them. I would have read it around 1970. I don't remember very much about it now, except that it was excellent and one I always intended to reread.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by xongsmith, posted 04-01-2023 10:38 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 356 of 381 (910247)
04-19-2023 11:14 PM


A Hubble Constant Divided
With this group you’ve probably heard of this. An update for those who may be interested.
The universe is broken.
We know the universe is expanding. Astronomers think it would be a good idea to know how fast that expansion is, the Hubble constant. Seems reasonable. They have come up with two different ways to make this measurement so to verify each other.
Except they don’t. There is tension in the Hubble constant.
I won’t get into the details of the 2 methods. If you want details, please ask.
One is supernova distance studies and gives us an expansion rate (Hubble constant) of 73 ± 1 kilometers per second per megaparsec (km/s/Mpc), with 1 Megaparsec representing around 3.26 million light-years. The 73 ± 1 is the important part. The other method is analysis of the super-fine structures of the CMB. When astronomers measure these tiny variations in this fossil radiation, it predicts a modern-day value for the Hubble constant of around 67.5 ± 0.5 km/s/Mpc.
If you’re familiar with error bars then the problem is glaring. 73 ± 1 and 67.5 ± 0.5 mean these are two totally distinct different numbers. They cannot both be the Hubble constant. The last years have seen tech improvements, new math models, many refinements in both methods and all that happens is the error bars get less and less. By refining our accuracy, we have only confirmed a major disconnect.
I want to emphasize this part because I think it is vital and overlooked. There have been 2 major teams leading these studies but there is an army of cosmologists that pokes and prods over every graph, number, equation. This has been under a microscope for years. No one has found the problem. It is that deep.
Both methods used appear solid and accurate from our knowledge of the cosmos. That means something is missing in our understanding of the universe.
If the error is in our understanding of the CMB then we have errors in a lot of cosmology based on this. If the problem is with the supernova analysis, then we have real problems with our understanding of stellar physics and QFT.
The hunt is on. The fun continues. There is something out there, there is knowledge we missed. Solving this can have a major impact on our world view.
Some may ask why this post in a forum about gods and evolution. I submit this post shows this universe also works in strange and mysterious ways as well as demonstrates the evolution of human knowledge.
R'amen
Also, want to play with our new toy. I like the new toy.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2023 12:04 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 358 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2023 12:06 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4474
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 357 of 381 (910248)
04-20-2023 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by AZPaul3
04-19-2023 11:14 PM


Re: A Hubble Constant Divided
Both methods used appear solid and accurate from our knowledge of the cosmos. That means something is missing in our understanding of the universe.
They both cannot be measuring the same thing. So, that means that there are hidden features in the Universe affecting the measurements of one or both supernovae and CMB.
I think i understand how the super novae measurements work, but I don't see how the Hubble Constant is derived from CMB data. I am not sure what the data in the CMB measurements represents. We have all seen the CMB maps, but how they get from that to the Hubble Constant is not clear at all.
I don't think this problem of 2 HC values is going to be solved until we understand both dark matter and dark energy.
BTW, MrID claims to have the answers.
Also, want to play with our new toy.
Just couldn't resist could you?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2023 11:14 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by AZPaul3, posted 04-20-2023 1:14 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4474
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 358 of 381 (910249)
04-20-2023 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by AZPaul3
04-19-2023 11:14 PM


Re: A Hubble Constant Divided
It's spinning the wrong direction!! No wonder the HC is screwed up!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2023 11:14 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by AZPaul3, posted 04-20-2023 12:09 AM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 359 of 381 (910250)
04-20-2023 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 358 by Tanypteryx
04-20-2023 12:06 AM


Re: A Hubble Constant Divided
Fixed it.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2023 12:06 AM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 360 of 381 (910252)
04-20-2023 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 357 by Tanypteryx
04-20-2023 12:04 AM


Re: A Hubble Constant Divided
We have all seen the CMB maps, but how they get from that to the Hubble Constant is not clear at all.
Math. Lots of math.
We can see where certain particle horizons existed in the CMB. One of those being the horizon size at the time of matter and radiation equality. That leads to an extrapolation of H0.
This is an abstract. The PDF is downloadable.
Observation of the Cosmic Microwave Background Anisotropy | Highlights of Astronomy | Cambridge Core
quote:
The next scale of interest is the horizon size at the time of matter and radiation
equality. That corresponds to a current physical size of approximately 13(fl0h ) ~ Mpc,
where h = Ho/100kms~ Mpc and H0 is the current value of the Hubble constant
and Q. is the ratio of the density of the universe to the critical density. This physical size
corresponds to an angle of approximately 8h arcminutes. This is the natural scale of
structure formation.
This angular scale also happens to be about the range of one optical depth
for Thompson scattering at a redshift of 1100. Thus objects smaller than about 8
arcminutes (0.1 degrees) are blurred by the finite thickness of the surface of last scattering.
Anisotropies on much smaller scale are expected to arise from foreground effects rather
than at the surface of last scattering.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2023 12:04 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2023 1:22 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024