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Author Topic:   Blood in dino bones
JonF
Member (Idle past 255 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 91 of 138 (196635)
04-04-2005 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Incognito
04-04-2005 12:52 AM


OT: Accountability
Horner's statement regarding cutting open more dinosaur bones makes a lot of sense in light of this kind of lack of accountability in the fields of anthropology/paleontology.
What you quoted is an example of accountability in the fields of anthropology/paleontology. Professor Reiner Protsch von Zieten cheated and got caught .. by scientists.

This message is a reply to:
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gengar
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 138 (196638)
04-04-2005 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Incognito
04-04-2005 2:06 AM


Re: stretching the evidence
Please educate yourself on the mega-fauna and mega-flora of the past. The last time I went down to the local lake I didn't see too many 60 foot cattails growing in the water...
You could educate yourself on the mega-flora and -fauna of the present. Why not head down the coast to California and look at the 360+ foot redwoods? Or take a boat and try and find a 100+ foot blue whale?
Or is the fact that everything seemed to be "bigger" not evidence of climate change at some point in the past?
Not as far as I know. In fact, as far as I'm aware, "everything" was not "bigger" in the past. Care to share your data?
I have to say I'm a little unclear on exactly what relevence your comments have to fossilisation of dinosaur soft tissue. That's what I've been talking about. I discuss the published results here. How does explaining that the blood vessels in question were encased in minerals, and that the original living tissue has probably also been chemically altered, represent a 'dodge'? That's what was observed.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 93 of 138 (196656)
04-04-2005 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by gengar
04-04-2005 9:11 AM


Topic
Blood in dino bones is the topic.
Will everyone please stick to that.
Other issues (dating assumptions for example) can be taken to appropriate threads.
If the topic isn't followed a bit more closely we will need a temp closure of the thread.
back in a few hours to see how we are doing.

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 Message 92 by gengar, posted 04-04-2005 9:11 AM gengar has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 138 (196771)
04-04-2005 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Incognito
04-04-2005 12:16 AM


Re: 2 tigers make all tigers
quote:
Currently they are all invoking various uniformitarian "miracles" and calling on their various "Gods" to save them from the fact that blood particulate lasting millions of years is illogical at best and a complete fallacy at worst
Yes, I understood they would find it a challenge. One reason I stsrted the thread, was to watch'm squirm!
quote:
all they are doing is trying to nit-pick at your mistakes.
Glad you noticed that. But I make less than I used to, and can fend off even the die hard evos much better than I used to, as I learn from sparring with them. Must admit, it's even hard to find anyone who can spar for beans these days. Ha.
quote:
and spend your time convincing your friends/family of the facts in person (it's amazing what a little grass-roots campaigning can do
I had them pretty well on board without needing to even know much about the depths of maddness of old age reasoning. But I like to get imput, to sharpen up, as I am coming into contact with many who I can teach these last few years, and they had questions.
quote:
). As for radiometric dating - start with a guy named Woodmorappe - they abhor him on this website but he's got some really good information.
OK, thanks for the tips. Oh, I tried to start a thread on dating, but it was axed by the censors here. So, although I could respond, here The split, and dating | Christian Forums
I'll have to avoid it here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Incognito, posted 04-04-2005 12:16 AM Incognito has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 95 of 138 (196773)
04-04-2005 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Incognito
04-04-2005 12:52 AM


Re: detente
quote:
"Panel says professor of human origins made up data, plagiarized works"
Wow, the old frauds are at it again!

This message is a reply to:
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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 138 (196775)
04-04-2005 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Cthulhu
04-04-2005 1:08 AM


Re: detente
quote:
This obviously totally invalidates evolution, while creationism, with its dozens of hoaxes, is correct.
???? Can you give a few examples, as would be easy for someone to do against evolutionists?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Cthulhu, posted 04-04-2005 1:08 AM Cthulhu has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 138 (196776)
04-04-2005 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Trixie
04-04-2005 3:38 AM


violent climate changes
quote:
I suppose you'll explain that by "microevolution" and artificial term used to create a distinction between changes within a species and changes from one species to another.
My opinion on that is that I don't care what kind of word we apply to the phenomena. As long as it fits in the several thousand year timeframe! I would personall prefer the term "extreme adaptability" -of God's creation.
quote:
We also have evidence that the world was colder than it is now. How can this be? How can it be warmer and colder? How about considering the possibility that at some times it was colder and some times it was warmer.
I would say the colder part mostly came in after (or during?) the flood. Do we have evidence of colder climates in the cambrian?
quote:
. I think the problem you'll have with this is the time frame you have to allow for all this temperature change to happen
No problem at all! Violence of the flood year, and subsequent climate changes, I think would cover most of that?

This message is a reply to:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 98 of 138 (196787)
04-04-2005 11:23 PM


Topic
Since we can't seem to stick to the topic I think a 24 hour break is needed.

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1492 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 99 of 138 (394778)
04-13-2007 7:24 AM


for jjsemsch re off-topic comments
for jjsemsch re off-topic comments on Message 38?
Another off topic example is Tyrannosaurus Rex soft tissue.
MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos
Page not found | NC State News
The uniformitarian geological timescale tells us that dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, but it’s hard to believe soft tissue could last through the process of fossilization, much less last 65 million years! (and before you call me out on this I realize that abiogenesis, biological evolution, and geology are all separate disciplines, but they’re all inter-related and necessary for the entire evolutionary theory) Rather than changing the geological timescale it’s the process of fossilization that is changed. I don’t know about you, but I can’t seem to keep leftovers in the fridge for more than 2 weeks, and that’s in a favorable environment!Top
Please quote the creatortionista site you took this from eh? ("Top?")
The concept being tested is your understanding of how theories are invalidated. This is supposed to be an example of a theory being invalidated, yet all it consists of is an opinion based on incredulity and the argument from ignorance.
Please read the rest of this thread.
Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 100 of 138 (394872)
04-13-2007 7:54 PM


Could the creationists please explain the magical mechanism which would have made this soft tissue rot away after 65 million years, but would have left them preserved for 4000 years after the flood?
Hint: there isn't one. Either there were bacteria present able to rot the soft tissue, in which case it would have rotted away in 4000 years, or there weren't, in which case it wouldn't have rotted away at all.
Your pick.

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by RAZD, posted 04-14-2007 9:19 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 104 by DogToDolphin, posted 02-11-2008 6:25 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1492 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 101 of 138 (394956)
04-14-2007 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Dr Adequate
04-13-2007 7:54 PM


In your new topic (EYEC) you forgot to use the argument that food rots in your fridge in a couple of weeks, thus demonstrating that the TRex here was only weeks old.

Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-13-2007 7:54 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-14-2007 5:34 PM RAZD has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 102 of 138 (395032)
04-14-2007 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by RAZD
04-14-2007 9:19 AM


Well, I did refer to the soft tissues, but you're right, I should have done the "a few weeks" bit, that's good.
I notice, by the way, that my dilemma has shut up the creationists good and proper.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 138 (455247)
02-11-2008 5:11 PM


Bump for DOG2DOLPHIN

Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"
He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.
-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"

  
DogToDolphin
Member (Idle past 5964 days)
Posts: 40
From: Avignon, France
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 104 of 138 (455265)
02-11-2008 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Dr Adequate
04-13-2007 7:54 PM


Where was this dinosaur bone found? At the surface or deep down in the soil?
quote:
In 2000, Bob Harmon, a field crew chief from the Museum of the Rockies, was eating his lunch in a remote Montana canyon when he looked up and saw a bone sticking out of a rock wall. That bone turned out to be part of what may be the best preserved T. rex in the world. Over the next three summers, workers chipped away at the dinosaur, gradually removing it from the cliff face. They called it B. rex in Harmon’s honor and nicknamed it Bob. In 2001, they encased a section of the dinosaur and the surrounding dirt in plaster to protect it. The package weighed more than 2,000 pounds, which turned out to be just above their helicopter’s capacity, so they split it in half. One of B. rex’s leg bones was broken into two big pieces and several fragments”just what Schweitzer needed for her micro-scale explorations.
taken from Dinosaur Shocker | Science| Smithsonian Magazine
So I am thinking that this dinosaur might not be as old as 70millions years, if it's near the surface (even a bone is sticking out the surface), so my guess is that it could be a few centuries or thousand years old), but I am sure we will never know. They could always run carbon 14 tests, but that's unlikely going to happen if they stick to the millions year old.
I don't see why extant or not-that-old extinct dinosaurs would be a problem for evolutionists. As a matter of fact many cultures from the past tell stories about dragons (dinosaur-like creatures). Why would they make up an imaginary animal?
Look at the Beowulf poem and other medieval stories. Also China has a dragon as one of its national symbol. Why does it look so much like dinosaurs if indeed no one had seen them in the past.
I think this question will be resolved if we find dragon (dinosaurs) skull/skeletons in medieval sites or ancient sites where people lived.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-13-2007 7:54 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Chiroptera, posted 02-11-2008 6:34 PM DogToDolphin has not replied
 Message 106 by Coyote, posted 02-11-2008 7:07 PM DogToDolphin has replied
 Message 109 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-11-2008 7:36 PM DogToDolphin has not replied
 Message 114 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-11-2008 7:54 PM DogToDolphin has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 138 (455268)
02-11-2008 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by DogToDolphin
02-11-2008 6:25 PM


So I am thinking that this dinosaur might not be as old as 70millions years, if it's near the surface (even a bone is sticking out the surface)....
Unless the original bone was buried hundreds and thousands of feet deep over a long time, then the area was uplifted by well understood geologic forces, and then eroded out until it began to stick out. That could easily take 70 million years or more.
-
I don't see why extant or not-that-old extinct dinosaurs would be a problem for evolutionists.
It wouldn't pose any problem at all, so I don't see why creationists make such a big deal over this.
-
I think this question will be resolved if we find dragon (dinosaurs) skull/skeletons in medieval sites or ancient sites where people lived.
Yup. That would settle it alright. The only reason people think that dinosaurs died off over 65 million years ago is because no one has ever found dinosaur remains younger than 65 million years old. If younger remains are found (or a living dinosaur is found), then it will be known that the dinosaurs didn't all die out over 65 million years old.

If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey.
Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
-- The Barenaked Ladies

This message is a reply to:
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