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Author Topic:   The Trump Post-Presidency and Insurrection
AZPaul3
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Posts: 6837
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(5)
Message 166 of 187 (895424)
06-26-2022 7:13 PM


Burn The Witch!
updated

Edited by AZPaul3, : Update image


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by xongsmith, posted 06-27-2022 9:42 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 168 by xongsmith, posted 06-27-2022 9:43 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2245
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 167 of 187 (895448)
06-27-2022 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by AZPaul3
06-26-2022 7:13 PM


Re: Burn The Witch!
ARGH!!!
no way to delete a post? i double posted

Edited by xongsmith, : tried to edit again and then delete the earlier version


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by AZPaul3, posted 06-26-2022 7:13 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2245
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 168 of 187 (895449)
06-27-2022 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by AZPaul3
06-26-2022 7:13 PM


Re: Burn The Witch!
i posted the pic on facebook and already got 5 shares.
thanks!

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by AZPaul3, posted 06-26-2022 7:13 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6837
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 169 of 187 (895450)
06-27-2022 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by xongsmith
06-27-2022 9:43 PM


Re: Burn The Witch!
9GAG didn't like it all that well, was like -70 at last check. A lot of MAGA folks just do not take kindly to their hero being lampooned ... accurately.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by xongsmith, posted 06-27-2022 9:43 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 170 of 187 (895459)
06-29-2022 10:18 AM


Cassidy Hutchinson Testifies Before the January 6th Committee
As I watched Cassidy Huthcinson testify before the January 6th committee yesterday I was struck by her maturity, articulateness, recall, clarity and command of detail. But then near the end she said this (full transcript of yesterdays hearing here):
quote
As a staffer that worked to always represent the administration to the best of my ability and to showcase the good things that he had done for the country, I remember feeling frustrated and disappointed, and really it felt personal. I — I was really sad. As an American, I was disgusted. It was unpatriotic.
It was un-American. We were watching the Capitol building get defaced over a lie, and it was something that was really hard in that moment to digest, knowing what I've been hearing down the hall and the conversations that were happening. Seeing that tweet come up and knowing what was happening on the Hill, and it's something that I — it's still — I still struggle to work through the emotions of that.
  —Cassidy Hutchinson
Here's the tweet Cassidy was reacting to (Trump's Twitter account has been suspended, so I can't present the tweet directly. In this tweet Jake Tapper sends an image of Trump's tweet.):
Cassidy Hutchinson said she felt "frustrated and disappointed" and "disgusted" at what she observed that day. Why then? Trump displayed no respect for Democracy since before he was elected, and Cassidy had a front row seat since she began working in the White House, first as a summer intern in 2018, and then full time as a special assistant to the president assigned to Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in March of 2019. Why, nearly two years later, was it the events of January 6th that disappointed and disgusted her when there were so many prior opportunities to be disappointed and disgusted? What kind of horrible people had she worked for previously that led her to think that politicians behaving so horribly was normal? The answer is Senator Ted Cruz and Reprentative Steve Scalise.
As a staffer Cassidy could have focused on the mechanics of doing her job, but her testimony reveals that she has an excellent sense of right and wrong politically, legally and constitutionally. Why did it only come to the fore on January 6th? Why did this fine young lady work so hard and faithfully for some of the most horrible people in the world.
I was not able to find out where Cassidy Hutchinson is working now. Naturally she's in danger now, and she hired a security detail last week. A young aide, possibly unemployed, cannot afford a security detail, so she must be receiving some assistance.
Oh, I've got another Trump lie for the Washington Post database. When Cassidy first began testifying Trump said he'd never heard of her. Then later he said that she applied to join his staff in Florida after he left office and that he personally denied the request, and along with his standard claims of a disgruntled employee seeking revenge. It's the standard Trump formula. Disgruntled employees hate him, make up bad things about him, then testify about him under oath before Congress with the threat of perjury charges if they lie.
There's a great deal in Cassidy's testimony to digest, but there was one area of her testimony that was overwhelmingly devastating for Trump, not that it will influence the Trump base one bit. The security people for Trump's speech on the Ellipse on January 6th detected a great number of people with weapons, and these people refused to pass through the Secret Service's magnetometers to enter the audience area because their weapons would be confiscated. They instead remained outside the audience area.
It annoyed Trump that the audience area wasn't full, and so he demanded that the Secret Service let everyone through the mags, weapons and all, because "They're not here to hurt me." This request was denied. And he wanted to join these armed supporters in their march down to capitol, and when the Secret Service wouldn't allow it he demanded that provision be made for his motorcade to take him there. In other words, he wanted to be at the head of an armed mob in front of the capitol. He wanted to use violent means to either influence or halt the counting of the electoral college votes. This was denied, too. He was furious, and at one point apparently tried to grab the steering wheel of his car.
Is this enough to end Trump's hopes of retaking the presidency? I doubt it. It doesn't seem to matter much what politicians are guilty of, only how many votes they can get.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by nwr, posted 06-29-2022 10:37 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 172 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-29-2022 11:18 AM Percy has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6039
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 171 of 187 (895460)
06-29-2022 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Percy
06-29-2022 10:18 AM


Re: Cassidy Hutchinson Testifies Before the January 6th Committee
Is this enough to end Trump's hopes of retaking the presidency?
No, it isn't.
We are dealing with a cult. And cults do not act rationally.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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 Message 170 by Percy, posted 06-29-2022 10:18 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3438
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(4)
Message 172 of 187 (895461)
06-29-2022 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Percy
06-29-2022 10:18 AM


Re: Cassidy Hutchinson Testifies Before the January 6th Committee
What struck me, over and over as I watched these Trump supporters testify, is the total lack of outrage at everything that fucking turd did to destroy OUR government and democracy for 4 fucking years. Those people think the only thing he did wrong was Jan. 6.
They are still in the cult.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Percy, posted 06-29-2022 10:18 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Percy, posted 07-08-2022 9:44 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 173 of 187 (895611)
07-08-2022 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Tanypteryx
06-29-2022 11:18 AM


Re: Cassidy Hutchinson Testifies Before the January 6th Committee
Tanypteryx writes:
What struck me, over and over as I watched these Trump supporters testify, is the total lack of outrage at everything that fucking turd did to destroy OUR government and democracy for 4 fucking years. Those people think the only thing he did wrong was Jan. 6.
It wasn't just 4 years - he's still doing it. With every speech he further entrenches and broadens the view within the country that the 2020 election was stolen, and he's recruiting and promoting people to run for office who believe their job is to tilt the election machinery so that only Republicans can win.
Trump said he hardly knew Cassidy Hutchinson and had only heard negative things about her, such as that she was a total phony, a leaker, and bad news. Her account of Trump's actions in the presidential limo when he demanded to be driven to the capitol was a "fake story," as well as "sick and fraudulent." He also denied knowing that any of his supporters on the ellipse were armed.
What does Cassidy Hutchinson think of Trump now? An unnamed friend says:
quote
[She] believed in the Trump agenda but was devastated by what she saw once she was there.
...
It was a mix of everything, from the lack of structure to the infighting to the backstabbing and witnessing the character of the president that many went in admiring and realizing he is mean-spirited.
  —Hutchinson friend
And yet she continued working for Trump in a tiny anteroom just a 10 second walk from the Oval Office.
Many say they continued working for Trump hoping to mitigate his baser instincts, but I think every single one who felt that way failed. I think they told themselves, "Things will be less worse if I remain," yet in the end every single one was just a speed bump on Trump's path to having his way and none made any difference.
If only truly honorable men worked for Trump then each one would have lasted only a week before having to stand on principle and resign or be fired. Hypothetically Mark Meadows: "No, sir, I will not call the Attorney General and invite him to a meeting in the Oval Office to discuss overturning the election. You can fire me or ask me to resign or ask someone else to do it or make the call yourself , but I will not do it." Trump: "You're fired. Next!"
Trump demonstrated time and again the horrible human being that he is, and yet he has a solid base of supporters of many millions. I couldn't find a reliable count, but I would guestimate it at around 40 million. Brooking's Institute and NBC conducted polls where the same question was asked both before the 2020 election and at the beginning of this year: “Are you more a supporter of Donald Trump than of the Republican Party?” In 2020 the answer was 54% for Trump while now it is 46%. I don't consider that a significant drop when someone leaves office. The number of people who support Trump the man over conservative Republicanism is scary because Trump doesn't have a philosophy of government beyond, "Just give me what I want."
A few months ago in their issue on covid Scientific American ran an article about the myth of rugged individualism making American the best and strongest country in the world. People who think this way are Trump's best customers. Rural America is hollowing out from the inside, and as it loses the ability to support many workers and loses health care facilities and so forth, their reaction is to buckle down and work harder and just endure, because they're self-reliant and don't need help from the guv'mint or anyone else, not even a cooperative situation. Increased economic assistance and health care coverage? Pah! What they deny is that we are strongest when we work together toward common goals, but they sneer at such attitudes.
I had a surreal dinner conversation the other night with a very intelligent independent thinker (PhD MIT). The result of thinking for himself is that he now discounts anything in the mainstream media and finds himself listening to Putin speeches and Youtube videos by obscure academicians. I couldn't believe what I learned. The war in Ukraine is NATO's fault for threatening Russian security going all the way back to Chechnya and Georgia. Hot water freezes faster than cold water (false, of course, but with a basis in truth I later learned as long as the "cold" water is at 160 degrees and a special setup involving shallow pans to prevent convection is used). Grant ended the Civil War by invading and taking Richmond (also false, of course, though divisions of Grant's army did enter Richmond to restore order after Lee surrendered at Appomattox Court House).
I mention this not to change the subject but because it was, for me, a very recent reminder of just how far out of the mainstream some people's thinking is. There's nothing wrong with independent thinking, but one's ideas must still be connected to reality, and this extremely bright person has somehow completely forgotten to do that and is instead following what appeals to him.
I think this kind of thinking is also typical of Trump supporters. They discount the mainstream media on the skimpiest of reasons, in this person's case that the global reporting staff of outlets like the NYT have been decimated and so they're forced to rely on independent correspondents who can't be trusted, meaning that even that a cruise missile struck a shopping center last week might not be true (I'll clarify by adding that he apparently accepts Putin's explanation that the actual target was the military facility next door and that an explosion of munitions caused the damage to the shopping center, this despite the video of a cruise missile striking the shopping center and images showing only a manufacturing plant across the street). Once one has justified ignoring typically reliable sources and has decided all sources are equal one can form whatever beliefs one likes.
I forget who said that very smart people are harder to convince of anything because they're brilliant at finding reasons for continuing to believe what they already believe. I'm reminded of Fred Hoyle who never stopped advocating for a static universe and who later in life independently developed his own reasoning for why the creationists were right (the old earth ones).
Sorry, I took the long way around for explaining why I not only agree that Trump supporters believe the only thing wrong he did was January 6th, but I'll raise you by saying that many don't even believe that was wrong.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-29-2022 11:18 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 174 of 187 (895612)
07-08-2022 10:06 AM


What Does Trump's Resignation From Truth Social's Board Mean?
There's a type of financial entity called a special-purpose acquisition company (SPAC). They are formed for the purpose of seeking companies to acquire. It is against SEC regulations for a SPAC to know its target in advance before it is formed, but the SEC suspects that that is what happened in the case of Digital World Acquisition Corp (DWAC). Founded by Donald Trump, the SEC is investigating whether DWAC was created for the sole purpose of acquiring Truth Social, thereby giving Truth Social instant access to the financial markets.
It was recently discovered that Donald Trump and Donald Trump, Jr. (and others), were removed from the DWAC board just a month ago (Exclusive: Trump left Sarasota media company weeks before federal subpoenas were issued). Who removed them? Why, Donald Trump himself. Why did they remove themselves from the board? Could it be that they had advance knowledge of the subpoena that would be served to Trump Media and Technology Group (owner of Truth Social) by the SEC later in June? And might he have had advanced knowledge of how a grand jury in the Southern District of New York was leaning, since they issued another federal subpoena at the beginning of July that often presages a criminal investigation.
I hope that leaving the board doesn't allow Trump to escape culpability for any breaking of the law that occurred while he still sat on the board.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 175 of 187 (895741)
07-17-2022 7:57 AM


Democrats Are Breathing Life into Allegations of Widespread Voter Fraud
It is common to hear something like, "There was no widespread voter fraud sufficient to overturn the election," or a variation, "We did not find evidence of widespread fraud that would have affected the outcome."
Every time Trumpists hear something like this they think, "So there *was* widespread voter fraud, they just haven't found enough of it yet."
But there wasn't any widespread voter fraud. None. Not anywhere in the country. If anyone thinks otherwise then describe the evidence of this widespread voter fraud here.
William Barr said it better: He had "not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election."
But the more often the phrase "widespread fraud" or "widespread voter fraud" is used the more convinced Trumpists become that there *was* widespread fraud, we just haven't found it all yet.
We have to stop using any phrases using the terms like "widespread voter fraud" except to say there was none. Using such phrases makes Trumpists think things like, "The margin was 80,555 in Penssylvania. I bet they found 70,000 fraudulent votes for Biden. We just need to find a few thousand more of the fraudulent votes. And we need to put strong voter controls in place to make sure that all this widespread fraud never happens again.
In other words, they think it's a fact that there was widespread voter fraud, and they're acting on it and casting votes based on believing it. Stop qualifying widespread voter fraud by saying things like, "There was no widespread voter fraud sufficient to affect the outcome." Just say, "There was no widespread voter fraud. In fact, as in all prior elections, there was very, very little fraud at all." That's all that need be said.
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 176 of 187 (895742)
07-17-2022 8:51 AM


Dinner with an Independent Thinker
In a post last week I alluded to a "surreal dinner" we recently had with another couple, and yesterday we had an opportunity to get together with them again. The wives were going blueberry picking, and normally I wouldn't go, but the other wife's husband was going to go. When they told me he was coming then I said I would go, too. I figured we'd avoid talking about politics.
But then suddenly the friend's husband was tied up in a canning project and couldn't make it, so I didn't go either. I didn't think much of it until my wife told me later that her friend had said her husband had said, "Oh, is he going to school me again on all the things he disagrees with?"
I generally avoid discussing politics with friends who hold different views, but at this dinner the husband was not shy about his opinions. He's no dummy, earning a PhD from MIT, but for me his opinions were way out there. The Ukraine war was the fault of the US and NATO for not respecting Russia's security concerns. He said he listened to John Mearsheimer (here's a link to his lecture about why the war is the west's fault: The causes and consequences of the Ukraine war A lecture by John J. Mearsheimer). He said he listened to Putin speeches and that they were worth listening to because Putin makes a lot of sense. He said mainstream media outlets like the New York Times and the Washington Post were unreliable now because they were mere shells of their former selves, having suffered greatly as the Internet ate away at their circulations. The missile strike on the shopping center? Propaganda. He mentioned a few websites I'd never heard of, but my suspicion is that they're right-wing websites. He implied I was uninformed for not following the same information sources he does.
I pushed back, and evidently I pushed too hard, because now it seems that he doesn't want to see me again. Someday I will have to learn to just nod neutrally as someone says absurd things that they read or heard on the Internet.
Oh, by the way, no vaccinations, either. He was right a couple years ago when he said it would become something endemic that we would have to just live with, but he pretended as if vaccines provided no benefit. He's big into environmental concerns and strongly believes in the interconnectedness of the world and that we're all in this together, but when it came to protecting your fellow man during a pandemic by minimizing the risk of being a spreader of disease, he was a no show.
As long as I'm changing the subject to covid I'll mention another friend who's a regular tennis buddy. He caught covid in late April, 2020, that turned into long covid. After a year and a half he was beginning to recover sufficiently to resume playing doubles, then he got sick again. He thought he had a bad cold, but the rest of us were all convinced it was another bout of covid, and it undoubtedly was, because his long covid got worse. When hitting tennis balls he can now last only 10 or 15 minutes, as long as he rests every five minutes. He doesn't believe in vaccines, either, or doctors or medicine in general. I've been gradually upping the pressure to get him to see a doctor, but yesterday I'm pretty sure I got my final answer: "No." At least he's still talking to me.
--Percy

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3438
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 177 of 187 (895744)
07-17-2022 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Percy
07-17-2022 7:57 AM


Re: Democrats Are Breathing Life into Allegations of Widespread Voter Fraud
It is common to hear something like, "There was no widespread voter fraud sufficient to overturn the election," or a variation, "We did not find evidence of widespread fraud that would have affected the outcome."
Yep, that has bothered me too. I think the members of the Jan. 6 committee hearings are making a huge mistake using that phrase rather than pointing out the known cases of voter fraud in the 2020 election. In a quick search I found 15 cases of voter fraud in the 2020 election all committed by single individuals.
The Heritage Foundation - Election Fraud Cases
I am not sure how reliable or trustworthy the Heritage Foundation is, but they maintain a database of voter fraud and they list 15 cases, nation wide, of fraud in the 2020 election.
15 cases that's it, 15 cases. And this is from a conservative organization. It doesn't list party affiliation of the perpetrators, but all the other reporting I have seen list all fraud cases from the 2020 election as perpetrated by Republicans.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Percy, posted 07-17-2022 7:57 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by xongsmith, posted 07-17-2022 4:13 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2245
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 178 of 187 (895746)
07-17-2022 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Tanypteryx
07-17-2022 12:07 PM


Re: Democrats Are Breathing Life into Allegations of Widespread Voter Fraud
Tanypteryx writes:
I am not sure how reliable or trustworthy the Heritage Foundation is, but they maintain a database of voter fraud and they list 15 cases, nation wide, of fraud in the 2020 election.

15 cases that's it, 15 cases. And this is from a conservative organization.
i took a look at the link and there were 2 more cases on page two, making only a miniscule 17 cases out of 155,000,000 votes cast. Page two was well-hidden - i was looking for a national total line and accidentally found page two.

Edited by xongsmith, : claritin


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-17-2022 12:07 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by ringo, posted 07-18-2022 1:06 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19784
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 179 of 187 (895757)
07-18-2022 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by xongsmith
07-17-2022 4:13 PM


Re: Democrats Are Breathing Life into Allegations of Widespread Voter Fraud
xongsmith writes:
... only a miniscule 17 cases out of 155,000,000 votes cast.
To be fair, you can't expect Trumpists to understand that 17 is less than 155,000,000.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1332
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 180 of 187 (895761)
07-18-2022 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by ringo
07-18-2022 1:06 PM


Re: Democrats Are Breathing Life into Allegations of Widespread Voter Fraud
As a golf score, it's better - which would explain them believing that ????

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by ringo, posted 07-18-2022 1:06 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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