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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7568
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 781 of 823 (897708)
09-10-2022 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 780 by Percy
09-10-2022 8:52 AM


Ben Shapiro views
No abortion under any circumstance.
Restrictions on the mentally ill are the only gun restrictions needed.
Pro Palestinian apartheid and genocide.
Extreme racist anti-islamic views.
Human activity not the cause of musch climate change. +4C change wont cause any issues.
Racism is a a thing of the past. All is good now.
He is an anti-semitic Jew. Only Jews with his beliefs are actual Jews.
A real POS. Of course Phat adores him. I wonder if Phat knows he is Jewish.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 780 by Percy, posted 09-10-2022 8:52 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 782 of 823 (897709)
09-10-2022 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 778 by kjsimons
09-09-2022 9:40 PM


Politics and Secular Emotionalism
How did my bringing up Ben Shapiro suddenly leap to Hitler and Stalin??
I don't just examine one political/moral ideology. I observe differing sides (and flavors) of both.
You show your bias heavily in favor of liberalism and attack me for even suggesting that anyone to the right of the political spectrum has a brain. (perhaps not a heart, in your mind)
I am not pro-Trump, though ringo claims I agree with him far too often. I am pro-thinking and just as we have observed that believers, in general, have an emotional need for God, humanists have an emotional need for self-validation. Shapiro is an authoritarian, but so is Biden. Note how Biden attacks a whole half of the country as being fascist. The gloves are off, both sides are squaring off, and my observation is that Fascism can be Left or Right.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 778 by kjsimons, posted 09-09-2022 9:40 PM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 783 by kjsimons, posted 09-10-2022 2:36 PM Phat has replied
 Message 788 by ringo, posted 09-10-2022 10:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 785
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 4.9


(4)
Message 783 of 823 (897732)
09-10-2022 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 782 by Phat
09-10-2022 11:53 AM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
You are obviously not "pro-thinking" otherwise you wouldn't have typed the lie that "Biden attacks a whole half of the country as being fascist". He only referred to the MAGAs which don't even include most republicans. Also, Biden is not an authoritarian, that is the current republican forte. Look at Trump and several Republican governors (Florida, Texas, ...) for examples of authoritarians. How can you possibly think that Biden is an authoritarian? It boggles the mind. Most of us here aren't too concerned with the traditional conservatives, though we might not agree with they, they didn't seem intent on destroying the country. It's the extreme right that concerns us as they are harming this country.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 782 by Phat, posted 09-10-2022 11:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 784 by Phat, posted 09-10-2022 2:43 PM kjsimons has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 784 of 823 (897734)
09-10-2022 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 783 by kjsimons
09-10-2022 2:36 PM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
It's the extreme right that concerns us as they are harming this country.
Shapiro seems to think that the extreme Left is harming the future of society. Apart from it being Shapiro, do you see any truth in that?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 783 by kjsimons, posted 09-10-2022 2:36 PM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 785 by kjsimons, posted 09-10-2022 3:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 785
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 4.9


(4)
Message 785 of 823 (897739)
09-10-2022 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 784 by Phat
09-10-2022 2:43 PM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
The extremists on either end are loonies, but at least the left loonies aren't trying to take rights away from anyone or steal elections or ban books. So I'm not worried at all about them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 784 by Phat, posted 09-10-2022 2:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20020
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 786 of 823 (897750)
09-10-2022 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 770 by Phat
09-09-2022 3:26 PM


Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
Phat writes:
Its not so much where "it" leads....its where you follow.
That's a silly attempt at cleverness. Without lead there is no follow.
Phat writes:
No, I mock you for claiming it is the standard.
It couldn't be any more black-and-white that it is the standard. You're not mocking a claim. You're mocking the standard.
Phat writes:
I would estimate that less than 5% of self-proclaimed Christians do it.
Argument from popularity is not valid.
Phat writes:
You never dared to do it.
How would you know that?
Phat writes:
You thought yourself out of what you labled a fantasy.
That has nothing to do with followig the standard.
Phat writes:
And then turn up the pressure on me...
How could I possibly put pressure on you?
Phat writes:
... hoping I will also deny that Jesus exists.
You've already demonstrated that your faith isn't real. What difference would it make if you admitted that YOUR made-up Jesus doesn't exist?
Phat writes:
If Jesus existed, (which I believe He does) He would not limit Himself to a character in a book.
YOU are limiting Him to the version that YOU made up. The version in the book is the only evidence we have for His existence.
Phat writes:
And I can assure you I don't make Him up.
Your assurance is worthless. It's perfectly obvious that your version is made up.
Phat writes:
How could I?
The same way any other fictional character is made up.
Phat writes:
It's your standards that are the illogical idea.
Show how they are illogical.
Phat writes:
All you are defending is a book.
I'm defending all of the evidence that we have. How could I do more than that?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 770 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 3:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 794 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 2:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20020
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 787 of 823 (897751)
09-10-2022 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 777 by Phat
09-09-2022 9:35 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
Phat writes:
Liberals are frustrated that nobody that they send can "beat" him in a debate.
Like Duame Gish? He lies faster than his lies can be refuted?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 777 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 9:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20020
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 788 of 823 (897752)
09-10-2022 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 782 by Phat
09-10-2022 11:53 AM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
Phat writes:
I am pro-thinking...
No you're not. You have mocked evidence, rationality and skepticism far too often for anybody to believe that.
Phat writes:
humanists have an emotional need for self-validation.
Everybody has an emotional need for self-validation. The difference is that humanists have to get it from reality instead of from some spook.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 782 by Phat, posted 09-10-2022 11:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 789 by AZPaul3, posted 09-11-2022 6:25 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7046
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 789 of 823 (897756)
09-11-2022 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 788 by ringo
09-10-2022 10:14 PM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
The difference is that humanists have to get it from reality instead of from some spook.
Pedantics are everywhere.
In fact it is the priests that keep the spook’s temple, enlightened in his presence, that speak in his spirit to issue his laws. The spook himself never seems to come right out into the daylight to deliver his own missives. Maybe some quantum thing between photons and spook particles interferes. Shades of vampire.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 788 by ringo, posted 09-10-2022 10:14 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 790 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 8:03 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 790 of 823 (897761)
09-11-2022 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 789 by AZPaul3
09-11-2022 6:25 AM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
If nothing else, I learned specifically what pedantic means, after reading this post.
Websters-- Frequently Asked Questions About pedantic writes:
What is the difference between pedantic and didactic?
The word didactic generally means "designed to teach," but it is often used in a negative way to describe boring or annoying lessons, or the people who teach them. While didactic can have a neutral meaning, pedantic is almost always an insult. It typically describes an irritating person who is eager to correct small errors others make, or who wants everyone to know just how much of an expert they are, especially in some narrow or boring subject matter.
Is pedantic an insult?
Pedantic is an insulting word used to describe someone who annoys others by correcting small errors, caring too much about minor details, or emphasizing their own expertise, especially in some narrow or boring subject matter.
What is an example of pedantic?
A pedantic person may do lots of annoying things, such as point out minor errors, correct people who make small mistakes and brag about their own knowledge and expertise.
AZ writes:
In fact it is the priests that keep the spook’s temple, enlightened in his presence, that speak in his spirit to issue his laws. The spook himself never seems to come right out into the daylight to deliver his own missives. Maybe some quantum thing between photons and spook particles interferes. Shades of vampire.
Shades of vampire, indeed! One mistake that you guys make is that you get all worked up over the Holy Spirit being a Monster yet never mention the other spirits that seduce, lie, and beguile humanity. They are the ones causing all the trouble! |
I suppose that I can't blame them for my own mistakes, and perhaps ringo is ultimately right. On some things, anyway. Or perhaps my inner demon is named "Troll" and Theodoric is right. I doubt it though. When I read the thread mentioned by him from EvC archives,
The Existence of Jesus Christ
​I was shaken by the fervor that all of you had in disproving Jesus. ( which you failed to do, by the way.)
Call me typical for "doubling down on my "irrational fantasy". I believe in the whole concept of spiritual war because I had subjective observation of such a realm in my own past and because I even see it now on days when I channel my inner asshole. The difference is that you liberals don't see it, disbelieve it, and don't in fact care.
You will go to your graves protecting the rights of other spirits to freely manifest themselves within humanity. Except for Republicans, of course.
The conservative extremists surely deserve hell. The liberal extremists, in contrast, are simply defending human rights. I suspect they are defending doctrines of demons as well, but my craziness meter just beeped, and it's time for my meds.

Edited by Phat, : added word "conservative"


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 789 by AZPaul3, posted 09-11-2022 6:25 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 791 by AZPaul3, posted 09-11-2022 9:16 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 792 by nwr, posted 09-11-2022 10:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 793 by ringo, posted 09-11-2022 10:48 AM Phat has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7046
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 791 of 823 (897765)
09-11-2022 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 790 by Phat
09-11-2022 8:03 AM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
I learned specifically what pedantic means ...
Glad to help with your vocabulary.
Do realize I was labeling myself as pedantic since I tried to dig a rabbit hole into Tangles' spook.
... yet never mention the other spirits that seduce, lie, and beguile humanity.
What other spirits? I thought there was only christian so therefore there can only be christian demons which means they all emanate from the same evil, ugly, piece of shit source known as the holy spirit which, to blaspheme the holy spirit, is the one unforgivable sin in all of Christendom. So don't say bad things about the evil, god damned, shit concept, the holy spirit.
Anyway, you haven't all gone and accepted other god's demons, have you? You trying to covert Aeshma - Wikipedia? Haven't you got enough demons on your own you gotta go recruit more from Iran?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 790 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 8:03 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6114
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 792 of 823 (897768)
09-11-2022 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 790 by Phat
09-11-2022 8:03 AM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
never mention the other spirits that seduce, lie, and beguile humanity. They are the ones causing all the trouble!
We call those "conservatives" and we often mention them.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 790 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 8:03 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20020
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 793 of 823 (897769)
09-11-2022 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 790 by Phat
09-11-2022 8:03 AM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
Phat writes:
you get all worked up over the Holy Spirit being a Monster yet never mention the other spirits that seduce, lie, and beguile humanity.
No, we mention the apologists all the time.
Phat writes:
perhaps ringo is ultimately right.
I don't care about being "ultimately right". I'd just like to get you to THINK once in a while.
Phat writes:
​I was shaken by the fervor that all of you had in disproving Jesus. ( which you failed to do, by the way.)
There's no need to disprove Jesus, just like there's no need to disprove leprechauns. The default is they don't exist. Again, the "fervor" is to get you to THINK.
Phat writes:
I believe in the whole concept of spiritual war because I had subjective observation of such a realm in my own past and because I even see it now on days when I channel my inner asshole.
You "observe" what you want to observe, what your lying apologists say you should observe. But it's all subjective.
Phat writes:
The difference is that you liberals don't see it, disbelieve it, and don't in fact care.
Because we try to be objective - and objectively it's all bullshit.
And it has nothing to do with being liberal - except that liberals are more likely to THINK. You like the conservatives because they encourage you to be brainless.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 790 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 8:03 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 795 by Phat, posted 09-11-2022 3:05 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 794 of 823 (897770)
09-11-2022 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 786 by ringo
09-10-2022 10:04 PM


Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
Phat writes:
It's not so much where "it" leads.... it's where you follow.
That's a silly attempt at cleverness. Without lead, there is no follow.
​Raw intelligence requires humans. No robot will ever figure out the meaning of the universe. Plus, they don't have to reproduce so it should be interesting what their logic, reason, and reality become.
Phat writes:
No, I mock you for claiming it is the standard.
It couldn't be any more black-and-white that it is the standard. You're not mocking a claim. You're mocking the standard.
I'm mocking your idea of Christianity. You mock me for making Him up, but the book itself was made up. The only standard we should be held to is the integrity of what we make up.
​​
Phat writes:
You never dared to do it.
How would you know that?
Your religion that you were brought up in was too strict. That's why you started thinking and wormed your way out of it. But it was based on a standard. The reason I know your religious upbringing was too strict is that even now you insist I follow the standard. You cling to the integrity of the book and claim that I don't.
Phat writes:
You thought yourself out of what you labeled a fantasy.
That has nothing to do with following the standard.
So let me get this straight. The book was written by humans of an earlier warring time. They described a God who commanded them to sacrifice animals and kill every one of their enemy. Jesus comes along and claims that the goats refused to do what He said and thus will also be harshly dealt with. You thought your way beyond both characteristics of the Triune God. The Spirit, which you fondly call the Spook, is also dropped in favor of logic, reason, and reality. Am I right so far?
Phat writes:
And then turn up the pressure on me...
How could I possibly put pressure on you?
Phat writes:
... hoping I will also deny that Jesus exists.
You've already demonstrated that your faith isn't real. What difference would it make if you admitted that YOUR made-up Jesus doesn't exist?
Phat writes:
If Jesus existed, (which I believe He does) He would not limit Himself to a character in a book.
YOU are limiting Him to the version that YOU made up. The version in the book is the only evidence we have for His existence.
Phat writes:
And I can assure you I don't make Him up.
Your assurance is worthless. It's perfectly obvious that your version is made up.
Phat writes:
How could I?
The same way any other fictional character is made up.
Phat writes:
It's your standards that are the illogical idea.
Show how they are illogical.
All I'm trying to show is that the idea of God is not illogical.
Phat writes:
All you are defending is a book.
I'm defending all of the evidence that we have. How could I do more than that?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 786 by ringo, posted 09-10-2022 10:04 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 796 by ringo, posted 09-11-2022 3:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 795 of 823 (897771)
09-11-2022 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 793 by ringo
09-11-2022 10:48 AM


Re: Politics and Secular Emotionalism
Phat writes:
you get all worked up over the Holy Spirit being a Monster yet never mention the other spirits that seduce, lie, and beguile humanity.
ringo writes:
No, we mention the apologists all the time.
in other words, you are collectively against the idea of organized religion...which I nearly agree with except you include the focus on a Creator of all seen and unseen. You are unable to deal with such an idea, so you throw relativism into the equation and respond "which God" as if to prove a point that everyone makes up God anyway. That looks clever on the surface...but IF God exists, you won't win your right to eternal free will. Satan tried it and is projected to fail.
Phat writes:
perhaps ringo is ultimately right.
ringo writes:
I don't care about being "ultimately right". I'd just like to get you to THINK once in a while.
Well I suppose I appreciate it. At least you aren't as mean as Theodoric.
Phat writes:
​I was shaken by the fervor that all of you had in disproving Jesus. ( which you failed to do, by the way.)
ringo writes:
There's no need to disprove Jesus, just like there's no need to disprove leprechauns. The default is they don't exist. Again, the "fervor" is to get you to THINK.
There you go again with relativism. The day I see people worshipping a Leprechaun is the day I explain to you that all other "gods" are imitators. Until then, the only leprechaun I ever see is on a cereal box!
Phat writes:
I believe in the whole concept of spiritual war because I had subjective observation of such a realm in my own past and because I even see it now on days when I channel my inner asshole.
ringo writes:
You "observe" what you want to observe, what your lying apologists say you should observe. But it's all subjective.
I observed based on where my experiences led me. If apologists are all liars, so are all mythicists. In fact, so are all humans.
Phat writes:
The difference is that you liberals don't see it, disbelieve it, and don't in fact care.
ringo writes:
Because we try to be objective -
Well keep up the good work. Quit blaming your problems on conservatives and I might consider easing up on you.
And it has nothing to do with being liberal - except that liberals are more likely to THINK. You like the conservatives because they encourage you to be brainless.
More likely, we are encouraged to be heartless so that more money can be earned. We surrender our brains to God. If He shows up knocking at your door don't worry. He didn't come for your money or your brain.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 793 by ringo, posted 09-11-2022 10:48 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 798 by ringo, posted 09-11-2022 3:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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