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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
ringo
Member
Posts: 20020
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 766 of 823 (897584)
09-08-2022 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 760 by Phat
09-08-2022 10:58 AM


Re: Keyword: Son. We are sons, not slaves.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
You and GDR postulate a puny god who can't do this and can't understand that. We humans create things that are deliberately stronger than us and smarter than us.
​First off, it was meant to be a joke directed at you.
I can't find what you quoted in the post you quoted, so I don't know what you said that was supposedly a "joke".
Phat writes:
At how you can't understand a God who "allows evil".
I can't understand why YOU can't understand that "allowing" evil when you can prevent it is the same as DOING evil. And I don't know why you would joke about that.
Phat writes:
Second of all, if you can imagine a God stronger and smarter than you, and if you claim that YOUR Faith was every bit as strong---stronger even than MY faith, why did you dump Jesus?
I have answered that many times. You really should read my posts.
I dumped the character Jesus BECAUSE he's just a character. He never existed. He never died. He never rose from the dead. He is certainly NOT alive today. The theology you have made up around him is inconsistent and irrational nonsense.
On the other hand, YOU have dumped his message.
Phat writes:
And if you were Christian...Mennonite or whatever...you would have known Jesus.
I thought I knew Jesus, just like you think you know Jesus. I was told that I could know Jesus just like you have been told that you can know Jesus. But it's a lie.
Phat writes:
I don't see something in the Good Book (no longer dusty, I wiped it clean with a sanitizing towelette) as an ironclad rule that I MUST follow or else.
Not even if Jesus explicitly said that it was an ironclad rule that you MUST follow or else? And isn't it convenient that you decide you don't have to do anything hard?
Phat writes:
You claim that I mock Jesus. Challenging Him is NOT mocking Him.
First of all, "challenging Jesus" would be a very stupid thing to do. Second, you certainly DO mock the idea of giving up everything and trusting him.
Phat writes:
Again, I'm a Son...NOT a Slave.
You're a slave to right-wing politics and right-wing theology.
Phat writes:
I think that your Faith was so authoritarian...
All faith is authoritarian. Why else would your handlers tell yo to avoid skepticism and doubt?
Phat writes:
... that you were afraid--at first--to talk yourself out of it.
Just like YOU are afraid to THINK yourself out of it.
Phat writes:
Once you did, you left in peace secure in your new knowledge of facts and critical thought...
No. Critical thought is never secure. The whole point of critical thought is to avoid carved-in-stone secure ideas.
Phat writes:
...yet sad to wave away Jesus as some human-created mythos.
What's sad about getting rid of a false idea?
Phat writes:
I would NEVER do such a thing.
Because then you'd have to face the dreaded reality.
Phat writes:
Perhaps I don't listen to Him as strongly as you once did, but I have no regrets.
A life without regrets is an empty life.
Phat writes:
The apologist would argue that evil had to be part of the option of true free will.
The apologist has lost that argument many times in this forum.
Phat writes:
Im in favor of intelligence and feel that it should *not* lead to abandoning ones faith....
Why shouldn't intelligence lead where it leads?
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
It is ALWAYS healthy to question and doubt. It is NEVER healthy to slavishly follow "what sounds good" even if it comes from the Almighty William Lane Craig.
OK, I agree.
And yet you're afraid to doubt your faith and your made-up Jesus.
Phat writes:
If an oddly shaped alian body were ever found, you all would jump on that belief simply due to the facts of scientific enquiry and evidence.
I don't know what that means.
Phat writes:
Heck, dwise1 gave up after reading Genesis!!
It is convenient that the Bible is wrong so many times just on the first page. You don't have to read much of it - but the more you do read, the more you find that's wrong.
Phat writes:
I would have given up too!
You didn't give up on the Bible until the New testament. You made up your own Jesus to replace the one who expects you to DO things.
Phat writes:
I dont resent you all having given up.
That's like saying you don't resent mothers feeding their babies. What on earth would give you the right to resent it?
Phat writes:
Additionally, you can make a case for the modern conservatives and their slavish devotion to Trump. They are more like slaves than the Christians are!
Sure. They're more like slaves than you are. And yet you keep agreeing with Trump.
*************
Thanks for the report on Faith. I always liked her (she reminds me of a real-life Faith I used to know) and I wish she would/could come back. You can tell her that I, for one, forgive her, though I suspect that her list of her "sins" against us would not align with mine. I think I always gave better (worse) than I got with her.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 760 by Phat, posted 09-08-2022 10:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20020
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 767 of 823 (897585)
09-08-2022 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 762 by Phat
09-08-2022 11:14 AM


Re: Keyword: Son. We are sons, not slaves.
Phat writes:
I won't disagree except to say not to blame Jesus for my behavior. It is all on me.
Why would I blame something that doesn't exist? I don't blame the leprechauns either.
And I don't care about your behavior. It's your hatred of thinking that I don't like.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 762 by Phat, posted 09-08-2022 11:14 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 770 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 3:26 PM ringo has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7568
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 768 of 823 (897605)
09-08-2022 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 765 by Phat
09-08-2022 11:39 AM


Re: Evil atheists, collapsing economy. Phat's visions
Then do not make the assertions. If you claim something you should be able to back it with actual facts.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 765 by Phat, posted 09-08-2022 11:39 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7568
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 769 of 823 (897651)
09-09-2022 3:14 PM


How I feel about religion

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


Replies to this message:
 Message 771 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 8:03 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 770 of 823 (897652)
09-09-2022 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 767 by ringo
09-08-2022 12:46 PM


Hatred Of Thinking?
ringo writes:
Why shouldn't intelligence lead where it leads?
Its not so much where "it" leads....its where you follow. Jesus implored us to follow Him. You claim I have no problem challenging His edicts, which is true by the way...but I maintain that you took it to a whole nother level.
Phat writes:
I think that your Faith was so authoritarian that you were afraid--at first--to talk yourself out of it. Once you did, you left in peace secure in your new knowledge of facts and critical thought...yet sad to wave away Jesus as some human-created mythos.
ringo writes:
I dumped the character Jesus BECAUSE he's just a character. He never existed. He never died. He never rose from the dead. He is certainly NOT alive today. The theology you have made up around him is inconsistent and irrational nonsense.(...)Why would I blame something that doesn't exist? I don't blame the leprechauns either.(...)What's sad about getting rid of a false idea?
Yet you turn right around and say to me:
ringo writes:
First of all, "challenging Jesus" would be a very stupid thing to do. Second, you certainly DO mock the idea of giving up everything and trusting him.
No, I mock you for claiming it is the standard. I would estimate that less than 5% of self-proclaimed Christians do it. You never dared to do it. You thought yourself out of what you labled a fantasy. How convenient! And then turn up the pressure on me, hoping I will also deny that Jesus exists.
If Jesus existed, (which I believe He does) He would not limit Himself to a character in a book. And I can assure you I don't make Him up. How could I? It's like making up a Donald Trump who never tweets and who loves poor people.
It's your standards that are the illogical idea. Try and defend that while not believing that Jesus ever existed! All you are defending is a book.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 767 by ringo, posted 09-08-2022 12:46 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 786 by ringo, posted 09-10-2022 10:04 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 771 of 823 (897670)
09-09-2022 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 769 by Theodoric
09-09-2022 3:14 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
Ben Shapiro tore her up in a debate. You all by and large applaud her but I'd go with Ben's wisdom over hers.
Capitalism vs. Socialism Debate | Ben Shapiro vs. Ana Kasparian

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 769 by Theodoric, posted 09-09-2022 3:14 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 772 by Theodoric, posted 09-09-2022 8:10 PM Phat has replied
 Message 773 by AZPaul3, posted 09-09-2022 8:14 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7568
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 772 of 823 (897673)
09-09-2022 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 771 by Phat
09-09-2022 8:03 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
What the fuck does this have to do with my post? Please quit trolling. Crawl back under your rock. You demand to be treated with respect but show no respect to those with beliefs different than yours.
How about you don't respond unless you actually have something relevant and pertinent to say? That way you will never respond to anyone.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 771 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 8:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 775 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 8:38 PM Theodoric has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7046
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(3)
Message 773 of 823 (897675)
09-09-2022 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 771 by Phat
09-09-2022 8:03 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
Well with shapiro being a dishonest debater and human asshole that makes her right.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 771 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 8:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 774 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 8:36 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 774 of 823 (897679)
09-09-2022 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 773 by AZPaul3
09-09-2022 8:14 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
This is the first I have heard of him being dishonest. Have you any specific examples?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 773 by AZPaul3, posted 09-09-2022 8:14 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 776 by AZPaul3, posted 09-09-2022 8:54 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 775 of 823 (897681)
09-09-2022 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 772 by Theodoric
09-09-2022 8:10 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
You just resent the fact that I'm not a member of the choir you preach to.
I'll go quietly to my rock, now.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 772 by Theodoric, posted 09-09-2022 8:10 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 779 by Theodoric, posted 09-09-2022 10:19 PM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7046
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 776 of 823 (897683)
09-09-2022 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 774 by Phat
09-09-2022 8:36 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
And recently. Such nonsense in a national debate.
There is more, if you care to look. He's a well known nutjob. You can't miss it.
Somehow, Phat, I'm not surprised you like this gabby crazy showman.
Ben Shapiro criticised for denouncing ‘lesbians on the moon’ as reason for Artemis 1 launch delays

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 774 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 8:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 777 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 9:35 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16366
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 777 of 823 (897684)
09-09-2022 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 776 by AZPaul3
09-09-2022 8:54 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
He is skilled at talking fast, providing points to back up his argument, and persuading those on the fence while preaching to his own conservative choir. Liberals are frustrated that nobody that they send can "beat" him in a debate. At least that's my take.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 776 by AZPaul3, posted 09-09-2022 8:54 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 778 by kjsimons, posted 09-09-2022 9:40 PM Phat has replied
 Message 780 by Percy, posted 09-10-2022 8:52 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 787 by ringo, posted 09-10-2022 10:08 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 823 by dwise1, posted 10-01-2022 5:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 785
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 778 of 823 (897685)
09-09-2022 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 777 by Phat
09-09-2022 9:35 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
He is a fucking asshole with no redeeming factors. It appears you would defend Hitlter or Stalin at this point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 777 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 9:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 782 by Phat, posted 09-10-2022 11:53 AM kjsimons has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7568
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 779 of 823 (897687)
09-09-2022 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 775 by Phat
09-09-2022 8:38 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
Not at all. I just dislike trolls and people not smart enough to make an actual argument.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 775 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 8:38 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21176
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 780 of 823 (897702)
09-10-2022 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 777 by Phat
09-09-2022 9:35 PM


Re: How I feel about religion
You are way past the point in life when you should be taken in by the equivalent of used car salesmen. I was just looking at a summary of Shapiro's views. I didn't know he believes homosexuality should be classified as a mental illness.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 777 by Phat, posted 09-09-2022 9:35 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 781 by Theodoric, posted 09-10-2022 11:23 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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