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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's a non-response. HOW is there a difference?
ringo writes:
Nope. Not even close. The same way you can be so sure that Santa doesn't exist. Phat writes:
Of course it is. How can you belive that Saldivar is casting out demons if you're not sure that demons exist?
... the real issue is not that I need to be sure that demons exist. Phat writes:
On the contrary, that has NOTHING do do with whether or not Saldivar is casting out demons.
The REAL issue is whether or not Jesus Christ is alive today and the message that He has eternally told us we need to do. Phat writes:
So it is a viable alernative explanation.
Yes, I know that fraud is widespread. Phat writes:
There is nothing in what you have posted that would motivate anybody to choose your side. You've backed one liar after another, you can't even articulate their arguments, you repudiate the Bible, you mock evidence.... Its not too hard to choose your side now, is it?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's not an error. You haven't even tried to show that it's an error. For Christ's sake, SHOW us what the difference is.
You keep making this same error lumping the Creator of ALL seen and unseen ino the same group as Leprechauns, Bigfoot's and Santa Claus. Phat writes:
How can you do that when you refuse to even discuss what they say? ringo writes:
I myself hope to be that one. yet you haven't been able to show us one honest one.(Apologist)"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I agree. Arrogance (thinking you're infallible) is your biggest obstacle. I think that the biggest obstacle is Arrogance."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Thought Police? It's YOUR side that puts belief before thought. You yourself have ridiculed thought in this very forum. You're afraid to think about the apologists' lies because it might challenge your precious beliefs. You don't need to worry about your thoughts being policed if you have no thoughts.
You and ringo do not get to define what judgements the thought police will enforce. Phat writes:
Then come alive and discuss the apologists' claims. I do not agree with your claim that Christianity causes oppression of mind and spirit. If anything, mind is renewed and spirit comes alive."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
But there are clearly wrong beliefs - flat earth, creationism, etc. And your religious beliefs are pretty clearly wrong because they're self-servingly mafe up in your own head. You openly reject what Jesus said, so you have no business claiming to have the "right" view of Christianity. In the world of EvC there is no "right" belief."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You have swallowed the line that those "commandments" are "faux". Discuss them before you dismiss them. Perhaps my view is immaturely developed and in that sspirit I agree with you. I have no right.I'm claiming that neither do any of you. Especially if you believe any of these faux commandments. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat, quoting some idiot, writes:
Wrong. The only way that the progressive argument works is if one already "knows" the Bible is not the word of God and therefore can declare all its truth-claims to be dubious. ALL truth claims are dubious without evidence. Until we have evidence that the Bible is "the word of God", we should be just as dubious as we are about the Book of Mormon.
Phat writes:
Yes. So there you have it. Care to discuss any of them?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Yes. That's how thinking works.
So essentially what you are trying to do is take the absolute truth claims of one belief...Historic Christianity...and strip them of their claim to be right...and hang that title instead on "evidence pending" or science. Phat writes:
You're the one who denies the words of Jesus. What you espouse has little to do with the historic Christian faith. What you preach is just right-wing politics.
As for the Book of Mormon...it isn't even in the same league with the historic Christian faith. Phat writes:
You're a textbook example of a cult member. You"re afraid to look at anything that disagrees with your cult's doctrines. A modern cult at best."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It has nothing to do with scholastic achievement. That would be an argument from authority.
Of course I expect that the lot of you are unimpressed with any scholastic achievement in a reformed theological seminary. Phat writes:
As I have told you before, I don't listen to commentators of any kind.
Perhaps you would listen to some simple guy like "Mr.Deity". Phat writes:
Is that any more ludicrous than the tenets that you believe to be absolute truth?
Brian Dalton is a former Mormon, or "Formon". He says that some contributing parts of his de-conversion are the tenet of Mormonism that God punishes people by darkening their skin... Phat writes:
And evidence contradicts various claims of the Bible. ... and the fact that evidence contradicts various claims of the Book of Mormon."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How many times a day do you bow down to Henry Ford or Thomas Edison? Otherwise I will be forced to label you as one of *them* who worship the creation and ignore the Creator."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's a copout. You're trying to redefine "create".
Humans can't create. Phat writes:
Irrelevant. Creation ex nihilo is a made-up concept. All that we do is recreate (or reassemble) that which has already been created. Your claim was that the creator is more important than the creation, which is as silly as your claim that the messenger is more important than the message. You know those things are not true, so why do you keep repeating them?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You didn't. I did. When did I ever say I knew these concepts were not true? And I have demonstrated that you know the message is more important than the messenger: You don't throw away your bills and worship the envelopes.
Phat writes:
Wrong. It is logic that guides and frames the arguments. I have nothing to do with defining logic. It is *you* who like to guide and frame the arguments according to your logic and inform me what I must then believe. And it's all about pointing out the nonsense that you SHOULDN'T believe."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How so? Isn't it bloody obvious that the automobile is more important than Henry Ford?
You seem to have problems categorizing things in order of importance. Phat writes:
You don't. How can you respect somebody when you deny His teachings? Intellectuals back in those days still respected the character of Christ... "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That isn't the context. Message over messenger has nothing to do with the number of gods.
Again, one must view these things in context.There is one God. Not many. Phat writes:
They count every bit as much as your made-up god. You have never been able to show otherwise.
Loki and the spaghetti monster dont even count. Phat writes:
Your "creator of all seen and unseen" is nothing but a bumper-sticker with no basis in reality. You can't use it to try to re-define "creator".
Edison was a human inventor...not a Creator of all seen and unseen. Phat writes:
Yes they are. It's a pretty exact analogy, unless you can show otherwise.
Envelopes and letters are not even in the same league and context as are Creator and creation. Phat writes:
If you think they're not equivalent, you have to SHOW it, not just deny deny deny.
You insist on relative equivalence. Phat writes:
You're making an empty claim. That just underlines the emptiness of your position. I am simply reminding you that you are wrong."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And you put yourself above Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
I talk with the teacher. Phat writes:
But will He forgive YOU? According to Matthew 25, He was pretty blunt about people He never knew.
He likely would forgive you for unbelief and would expand upon what was written in the Book. Phat writes:
Human logic, reason and perception are all any of us have. But go on and follow human logic, reason, and perception."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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