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Author | Topic: COVID vaccine works - we're saved! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Percy replies:
Does the real world ever come to a consensus that is wrong? If so, why are they found to be wrong? The real world is never wrong. But the consensus can be. At one time a majority of people thought the world was flat. Today by my estimate some roughly 90% of the world still thinks thatthere is a supernatural being who created the universe. Or that there is a "spiritual world". Or that any supernatural things exist in the real world, the natural world. BUT THAT IS OFF TOPIC."I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
AZPaul3:Shouldn't I at least get a participation medal?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Theodoric:Perhaps you shouldn't tell your wife that she is irrelevant to the discussion and that no one cares what she tells her patients when she starts them on antibiotics.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
xongsmith:You don't need my help to be confused, you do it quite well on your own.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:xongsmith will now prove to us that God does not exist. And then to get back on topic, he will explain why the Covid (or for that matter any) vaccine is not 100% effective.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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But I never said that about my wife. You are a liar. Lying is not only bad form but also against forum rules.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Theodoric:Does your wife know what to tell her patients when she prescribes antibiotics? If so, what is it?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Shouldn't I at least get a participation medal? The state took that away from you when they yanked your medical license.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Kleinman writes: So you think that people should be confined if they have infectious diseases? Is Covid the only disease for which they should be confined or should they be confined for other infectious diseases? You're still asking the same basic question, and the answer hasn't changed. How to balance personal freedom, individual safety and the risks to the overall population is a tough question. I don't have a ready "one size fits all" answer for you.
20% of Americans have an STD, is that a healthy society? You can continue asking the same question in different ways, but my answer is the same. Societies should share the cost of health because a healthy society benefits all.
Many of these diseases are life-threatening and drug resistance is appearing in many others. Sounds like a large and difficult problem that only society as a whole could tackle.
I've already given you my position on this subject, don't you remember? Of course, but the nature of your continued questions strongly hints that you have more to say.
Kleinman:What, no smilie? No, no smilie, I was serious. You may have misinterpreted what I meant by real world. I was using it as a synonym for laws of the universe or natural physical laws, not the planet's population.
Kleinman:Somebody confine Percy, there is no research that shows that he won't transmit an infectious disease. No such research exists for any of us, including you. And as I said previously, isolation must take into account both degree of contagiousness and the severity of the disease. A highly contagious disease that for most individuals presents with very mild symptoms, such as a cold, requires no isolation. But isolation might be considered for highly contagious diseases that can cause severe illness or death.
Kleinman:That is not necessarily correct. https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ticle/pii/S0014299921003447 Highlights • Azithromycin... Studies have found that azithromycin is not an effective treatment for covid, including when combined with hydroxychloroquine. For example, this is from the Interpretation section of Azithromycin for community treatment of suspected COVID-19 in people at increased risk of an adverse clinical course in the UK (PRINCIPLE): a randomised, controlled, open-label, adaptive platform tria:
quote: And this is from the Discussion section of Azithromycin versus standard care in patients with mild-to-moderate COVID-19 (ATOMIC2): an open-label, randomised trial:
quote: Do you think the incidence of bacterial pneumonia could have been reduced if they had been given antibiotics (such as Azithromycin) early in the episode? It would make sense that anticipating opportunistic bacterial infections like pheumonia through early regimens of antibiotics like azithromycin on covid patients who have not yet contracted pneumonia would have a beneficial impact, but studies did not find one. As far as the antiviral effects of antibiotics, it's a large and complicated world out there. While antibiotics do not as a rule have any impact on viral infections, it is not inconceivable that there are cases where an antibiotic through some indirect channels has a measurable positive effect. Despite the findings of some researchers azithromycin didn't pan out, either to prevent pneumonia or to improve covid outcomes, and a casual Google search didn't turn up any antibiotics suggested for use with viral infections. But that doesn't mean none exist.
Kleinman:You might be surprised at the number of lethal pathogens that you are exposed to every day. But we don't worry about them because they are so rarely lethal, and usually only for people with comorbidities such as cancer or advanced age.
What are the conditions that someone should be confined or lose their job due to any infectious disease? You keep asking the same question in different ways. The answer hasn't changed. If there's a point you're trying to make beyond what you've already said then it would probably work better if you just stated it.
Kleinman:Parkinson's is a consequence of the destruction of the substantia nigra, muscular dystrophy is a genetic disease. Covid is a viral disease. Influenza has been implicated as a causative factor for Parkinson's. Should influenza patients be confined? How high are the risk factors?
It certainly won't benefit his work on phylogenetics. It would reveal he is doing his mathematics incorrectly. I think Felsenstein's actual point was that your math was already wrong at a basic level, and so there was no need to demonstrate that again in a more complex context.
Kleinman:Do you think that Darwin understood DNA? He did understand the concept of "reproduction",...etc... I only pointed out that Felsenstein used the term "generations" while you used the term "replications", and since you claim they're not synonymous that means you didn't actually address what Felsenstein said. You attempted to rebut this by claiming you used the same terminology as Darwin, but Darwin never used the term "replication." You then attempted a further defense by irrelevantly changing the subject to DNA and reproduction. The original question concerned your response to Felsenstein's comments. He employed the term "generations", but your response used the term "replications", and you said they do not mean the same thing. This makes it appear that you did not actually address what Felsenstein said. You need to respond to Felsenstein's comments in a way that actually addresses his concerns. --Percy
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:The medical board yanked my medical license just like the publisher yanked these two papers. For a single selection pressure: The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures: The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance Check this out yanker. The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection - PubMed and The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance - PubMed You should report this to Retraction Watch – Tracking retractions as a window into the scientific process . You will straighten this out.
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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This was the original exchange:
Percy in Message 914 writes: Kleinman in Message 913 writes: How do you determine that evidence is relevant and reliable? I expect that one becomes better at it through validating one's reasoning from evidence with feedback from the real world. In this context "real world" just means laws of the universe or natural physical laws. I'm referring to validating hypotheses through experiments. It has nothing to do with polling the world's opinion. --Percy
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
the Kleinbottle replies:
xongsmith will now prove to us that God does not exist. I said it was OFF TOPIC. Apparently you cannot read.
And then to get back on topic, he will explain why the Covid (or for that matter any) vaccine is not 100% effective. I roll my eyes and think to myself "Jeezo, what a shitfuck this Kleinman is. An unmitigated SHITFUCK."Then I post that here. How does it feel? To be all alone?"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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Again as I said before, that is irrelevant to this topic. Are just going to continue repeating this?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Re: Message 936 the Kleinbottle is a SHITFUCK.
He must love how it feels - he does it so often."I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Of course - but it was the SHITFUCK's introduction of the term "consensus" that I took issue with.
Of course the real world is never wrong, but the consensus of it is can be, because that is a humanly-determined characteristic.The whole engine of the Scientific Method is to determine the real world, not the consensus of what people think it is.* * unless it is an actual scientific investigation of the various consensuses in the historical human world."I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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