|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: COVID vaccine works - we're saved! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Kleinman writes: Kleinman:Who is the target audience for the generalized use of masks? As I said, the target audience for the article is not the general public but medical professionals, who understand the terminology just fine. --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Kleinman writes: Where in that speech did Joe Biden correct his erroneous claim that vaccination prevents the spreading of Covid? As I said, I could find no news item about a correction about his comments at the CNN Town Hall in July (Fact-checking Biden’s town hall on CNN). In the September speech (Remarks by President Biden on Fighting the COVID-19 Pandemic) he states the case correctly.
And who is at risk from Covid, those that are vaccinated or those that are unvaccinated? Statistically the unvaccinated are at greater risk for illness and death. --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Do you think that generalized mask mandates are targeted only at medical professionals? And in case you are interested, here is where Joe Biden got his expert advice that vaccinations prevent the spread of Covid.https://thehill.com/...-become-dead-ends-for-the-coronavirus Anthony Fauci said the following in a 2021 interview on "Face the Nation" Fauci said:
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Where did he state the case correctly that vaccination does not prevent the spread of Covid? Kleinman:Should unvaccinated people be forced to take vaccination against their will?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Kleinman writes: Do you think that generalized mask mandates are targeted only at medical professionals? No, I don't think that.
Anthony Fauci said the following in a 2021 interview on "Face the Nation"... Even worse was when Fauci said early on during the pandemic that masks would provide little benefit to the general population. He later admitted that wasn't true, that he only said it out of concern for their availability to the medical community, especially of N95's. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
|
Kleinman writes: Where did he state the case correctly that vaccination does not prevent the spread of Covid? In Remarks by President Biden on Fighting the COVID-19 Pandemic he talks not about vaccines preventing spread, which was incorrect, but about the protections vaccines provide:
Joe Biden: Moving on:
Should unvaccinated people be forced to take vaccination against their will? Whose right is greater, that of people to experience a lower risk of infection out in public, or that of people who wish not to be vaccinated? I don't have an answer for you. I do believe that society is best served by individuals who have the best interests of their fellows at heart. --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Do you think that the general public understands what kind of mask to use and how to wear it? Kleinman:Do you think that an ineffective, improperly worn mask will be effective in preventing the spread of Covid or any other infectious disease? Fauci has little or no clinical experience and has little understanding of the general population and how they respond to the medical system and the medical advice we (physicians) give to people.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Joe Biden didn't correct his erroneous claim that vaccines prevent the spread of infectious diseases. Why didn't he make this correction? Kleinman:You have already said that unvaccinated people are at greater risk of illness and death from disease. If someone thinks they have the best interests of their fellows at heart, they don't do it by forcing people to do something against their will. They make their case and let people decide for themselves. You want to do it by making laws based on poor preparation and a false sense of security.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
|
Kleinman writes: Do you think that the general public understands what kind of mask to use and how to wear it? Judging by what I saw out in public during the mask-wearing phase, a significant proportion of people don't understand that gaps compromise mask effectiveness. The worst gaps occur when people wear the mask below the nose. I don't think the general public realizes how ineffective cloth masks are, or that surgical masks have a sort of running gap all around the edge. I also don't know how much the general public is aware of the debate about the relative effectiveness of surgical versus N95 masks, but laboratory measurements indicate that N95's are far better at capturing small droplets than surgical masks, and they have a much better fit with far fewer gaps.
Do you think that an ineffective, improperly worn mask will be effective in preventing the spread of Covid or any other infectious disease? It's a continuum. The better the mask and the more properly and consistently it is worn, particularly when other people are present, the more effective it will be at reducing the spread of respiratory disease.
Fauci has little or no clinical experience... According to Wikipedia, that isn't an accurate statement:
Wikipedia on Anthony Fauci: ...and has little understanding of the general population and how they respond to the medical system and the medical advice we (physicians) give to people. The "general population" is a large and diverse group, significant proportions of which seem to behave in ways counter to their own best interests. There is a multiplicity of ways that members of this group respond to the medical community and medical advice. I would imagine that most physicians despair of ever developing a good feel for how they will behave. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Typo.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
|
Kleinman writes: Joe Biden didn't correct his erroneous claim that vaccines prevent the spread of infectious diseases. Why didn't he make this correction? To me it's incomprehensible that the White House didn't issue a correction (or at least none that I could find online two years after the fact), but after the CNN Town Hall there were fortunately numerous fact-checking articles noting what he said that was wrong while providing correct information. And returning to your original claim, Biden's comments were based upon his own misunderstandings, not the advice of medical experts who well understand that vaccines do not prevent infection.
You have already said that unvaccinated people are at greater risk of illness and death from disease. Correct.
If someone thinks they have the best interests of their fellows at heart, they don't do it by forcing people to do something against their will. And the flip side of this is that if someone has the best interests of their fellows at heart, they don't risk exposing them to potentially deadly diseases.
They make their case and let people decide for themselves. You want to do it by making laws based on poor preparation and a false sense of security. What I actually did was to rhetorically ask whose right was greater, saying that I don't have an answer for you. How we deal with threats to public health should always take into account the severity. If contracting the disease and dying has a rate of .001% then we probably don't adjust public health policy. If that rate were instead 1% (covid was around .3% in the US) then some adjustments to public health policy would be necessary that would depend upon the nature of the threat. And if that rate were 10% then there would need to be significant changes to public health policy, including a number of things that would intrude upon personal freedoms. People respond differently to different threat levels. When they believe there's little to no chance of severe illness or death then they'll tend to ignore public health cautions and advice. But when people they know and people they love begin to fall ill and even die such that it's impossible to deny or ignore the threat then the general tendency is to modify behavior to minimize risk. --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined:
|
Kleinman:Do you understand that a general mask mandate for the prevention of the spread of an infectious disease requires a lot of preparation of the population, (education, training,...etc.)? And what do you do with children that are too young to understand that training? Do you think that writing a law solves the problem? Yours and the "good intentions" of others that think like you have harmed a lot of people with your shallow thinking. Kleinman:I'm not arguing whether a properly worn, effective mask will reduce the risk of transmission of an infectious disease. Why do you continue to argue this way? The question is whether a generalized mask mandate will reduce the spread of Covid (or for that matter any other infectious disease). Where is your evidence that any generalized mask mandate reduced the spread of Covid? Kleinman:Do you think that looking at a spreadsheet is the same as seeing and caring for patients? Kleinman:Do you think you know enough to force people to behave in ways in their own best interests? Try doing 150,000 documented patient encounters (encounters I got paid for) and see if you get some idea of how patients behave and respond.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
|
Why didn't you just begin by saying that the public is too stupid to behave properly?
I think a lot of the animosity you created would have been avoided. It's one thing to claim that the vaccinations are not effective and that maskingis not effective, but both work as instructed if the stupids just follow instructions. Oh well, it's another day in the neighborhood,"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
xongsmith:xongsmith will now give us instructions on correctly using vaccinations and masks. After that, he will instruct us on how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail and explain why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiments. If he can't do that, perhaps Richard Dawkins will explain it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
|
xongsmith will now give us instructions on correctly using vaccinations and masks. After that, he will instruct us on how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail and explain why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiments. Why should he? You can't. xongsmith is not a biologist or a medical doctor. You are (so you say). But you can't explain any of these things, either. Biologists and medical doctors, if in their speciality, know the answers to these things. It's their job. Those others in the discipline may not know off the tops of their heads but they can find the information soon enough. There are plenty of places out there to study. But you, Kleinman, can't explain these things. You tried. You even self-published some lone papers on a vanity site trying to explain but all the rest of the knowledgeable scientists flushed them down the academic crapper. You were so wrong you didn't even rate a response from ... anyone. So, you have not explained any of these things. So, stop trying to insult others who cannot recite the gospel when you don't know it either.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:I like explaining these things to you AZPaul3, you are so well prepared to understand them. Here it is. For a single selection pressure: The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures: The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance With a little training, even you could learn it.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024