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Author | Topic: Morality without God is impossible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18528 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.8 |
So how are you going to test the "Source" when the book is full of many sources?
How do you construct a God whom you can believe in when you are presented with so many different characters? The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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Phat Member Posts: 18528 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.8 |
By the way, I have been listening to a Bible teacher who has, in fact read the Bible and who talks about Morality and God.
Dr.Joseph Garwood On Morality The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes: How do you construct a God whom you can believe in when you are presented with so many different characters? Think Phat. People created each of those Gods. People have created thousands of Gods. God(s) and god(s) exist as long as there are believers in that God or god. The answer is that you understand that GOD, if GOD exists is NOT any of the Gods or gods we have created.
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Another Proof Texter. Bare links?
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Phat Member Posts: 18528 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.8 |
I dont have access to transcripts from which to quote. I will show you a bit more about Dr.Garwood, however.
Cross & Crown Church Sermons About Dr.Garwood: Dr. Jason Garwood has spent his career seeking to both understand and apply the Biblical worldview to every single area of life. His aim is to help pastors and churches to be better equipped to engage in the Great Commission by teaching Christians how to find their individual purpose in the Kingdom of God and learn how to identify and respond to cultural idols. Jason is the author of several books, including Reconstructing the Heart, Have Yourself an Eschatological Christmas, and The Politics of Humanism (forthcoming); He has written articles for various outlets and blogs at jasongarwood.com; He is a co-host of Cross & Crown Radio; He has preached and lectured internationally, exposing the underling errors and problems with anti-biblical worldviews, applying the Scripture to topics such as: government education, abortion, the drug war, immigration, and vaccines; and You can find him at college campuses, high schools, and political meetings and events seeding the gospel of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ. He has been married to his wife, Mary, for 13 years; They have three children; He makes his home in Warrenton, Virginia. You likely will label him disdainfully as "another Biblical Christian" but he has read and studied the Bible at least as much as you have. I heard a couple of his sermons and liked them. They made sense.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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Phat Member Posts: 18528 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.8 |
The answer is that you understand that GOD, if GOD exists is NOT any of the Gods or gods we have created. Great. So then, how do you believe in this "GOD"? Traditionally, we have come to know GOD through the character and life of His Son, Jesus Christ. We study scriptural precepts as to how best to approach the challenges of life. We use logic, reason, and reality, but we also have a desire to know God as best as we can. If, as you claim, none of our created Gods are correct, you impose on us no method, means, or opportunity to get to somewhat know the One whom we worship. You have seemingly gotten around that by simply creating and answering a charge--a way to live your life intentionally and honorably through doing what Jesus said to do. Fine, great even. Surely at least some Episcopals believe that Jesus is alive in our hearts and minds today. Whenever I ask you, all I get are more questions. You are a man with limitless questions and few answers. I hit this same roadblock with ringo. He always has stated that the message requires no messenger. This contrasts sharply with what I was taught of the importance of knowing God. In fact, your entire worldview suggests that it is impossible. Perhaps this is why you always taught your students to throw Him away. I prefer listening to Dr.Garwood, who arrives at no such similar conclusion.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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ringo Member (Idle past 584 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Paul disagreed with you. He said that even the Gentiles know right from wrong, with or without "God's law".
The fact is, they were Theo-centric. Phat writes:
That isn't a problem; it's the solution. Your problem is that you view these events from a human-centric perspective."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 584 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
All concepts - including God - are conceived by humans. While the ideas about God were written by humans, God the concept is Himself Creator of all things---including humans."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 584 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
That isn't quite right. The message requires no specific messenger. Any messenger will do. I hit this same roadblock with ringo. He always has stated that the message requires no messenger."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes: I heard a couple of his sermons and liked them. They made sense. Consider that. What does that have to do with anything beyond confirmation bias?
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Phat Member Posts: 18528 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.8 |
We have no proof of this. As you once argued with Stile, there may be a "place" we've overlooked or not examined. Your "all" is tentative at best.
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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Phat Member Posts: 18528 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.8 |
One man's confirmation bias is another man's search for contrary points of view.
I do search for points of view which support, rather than challenge yours, but I find your type of thinking scarce on the internet. You seem to fit in with atheists better than you do believers. For the sake of this basic argument, I will concede that I personally believe that morality is our responsibility--not Gods. My argument is to support the basic idea that anything is impossible without God. Unbelievers would protest, of course. The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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ringo Member (Idle past 584 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I said in Message 53, "All concepts - including God - are conceived by humans." That has nothing to do with the reality of God or whether we might some day find evidence of God. We have no proof of this. As you once argued with Stile, there may be a "place" we've overlooked or not examined. Your "all" is tentative at best. You said in Message 40, "While the ideas about God were written by humans, God the concept is Himself Creator of all things---including humans." The concept is human imagination, period. Whether or not there is a God, whether or not we ever find evidence of Him, the concept is entirely made up by humans. If we ever did find evidence of God, our concept of Him would likely change a lot."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes: My argument is to support the basic idea that anything is impossible without God. But you never present an argument, only repeat your beliefs. What does the actual evidence show? Is there any evidence that shows atheists are less moral than Christians? Is there any evidence that shows those who deny Jesus was God are less moral than Christians? Is there any evidence that shows Muslims are less moral than Christians? Is there any evidence that shows Buddhists are less moral than Christians? Is there any evidence that shows Hindus are less moral than Christians? Is there any evidence that shows Taoists are less moral than Christians? Is there any evidence that shows Satanists are less moral than Christians? Is there any evidence that shows Non-Trinitarian Christians are less moral than Trinitarian Christians? What does the evidence show?
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Phat Member Posts: 18528 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.8 |
Is there any evidence that God exists regardless of what people believe about Him?
Should a lack of evidence be any grounds for rethinking one's worldview? Is there any evidence that Christian belief and thinking have influenced the world more so in a good way than a bad way? What does the evidence show?The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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