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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Dominant Force in West Today According to Dennis Prager is Fear of Left | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Notice no mention of man becoming like satan, rather that man had become as one of us. They would have become llke Satan if they'd eaten of the Tree of Llfe in their condition as sinners, immortal and evll at the same time and without any hope of salvation. I think Phat may have said this too. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: jar writes: Indeed I do. I refuse to accept a God that is hesitant, unsure, and in need of correction by humans. To me, that simply places humans as their own judge and responsible fully for their own salvation and justification. And that I will not accept. And you continue to market the God you create instead of the God that is actually described in the story. Yet that is exactly what is written in the Bible Stories. You worship the God you created and not what is described in many of the Bible stories. And no one has yet shown any evidence that "Fear of the Left the driving force in the west today ".
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: They would have become llke Satan if they'd eaten of the Tree of Llfe in their condition as sinners, immortal and evll at the same time and without any hope of salvation. Yes Faith, that is the story you and the Apologists make up, but is NOT what is written in Genesis 2&3. And you still have offered no evidence that "Fear of the Left the driving force in the west today".
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Clearly. The tree was only "guarded" once they ate from the other tree. Clearly eternal life and "knowledge" did not go hand in hand. But that's not the point. The point is that the tree was guarded to prevent them from obtaining eternal life ("lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" Genesis 3:22). They did not have eternal life. They didn't know about death until they had the knowledge of good and evil but death was in the world. They would have died anyway many years later."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I know what Phat said but that's not what the Bible says. Eternal life was something to be obtained by eating from the Tree of Life. Thus it could not have been something they already had. As Phat said, they NO LONGER had eternal llfe...."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
They had eternal llfe before the fall and eating of the Tree of Llfe, which was permittex then, apparently sustained it somehow, I'm not sure if anyone really understands this, but after the Fall they had changed, they had lost their connection to God, they were now "mere flesh" without eternal llfe and eating of that tree at that point would have set their sin in concrete as it were so that they could never regain their former status. Through Christ's sacrifice for us, however, we will now have an eternal llfe that cannot be lost.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That's complete fiction, made up, unscriptural. There is no reason to think they had ever eaten from the Tree of Life. They had eternal llfe before the fall and eating of the Tree of Llfe, which was permittex then, apparently sustained it somehow...."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
there is every reason to believe it because it was not forbidden to them. In fcct God explicitly said they could eat of every tree of the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evll.
I looked up that verse but Blue Letter Byble has changed its phormat and I'm unable to see to navigate it. Google is too hard for my eyes as well. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That isn't "every" reason. It's barely one possible reason. But there is no reason to think they ate from every tree except the one forbidden tree. At best, it's a completely unsupported speculation. There is certainly no justification for making a whole doctrine of it. there is every reason to believe it because it was not forbidden to them."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh get real. If they knew what all the trees wer for, which of course they did, then they are going to eat of the Tree of Llfe.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Of course they didn't. They didn't yet have the knowledge of good and evil. They didn't know that death was something to be avoided so they had no particular reason to eat from the Tree of Life. If they knew what all the trees wer for, which of course they did...."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Regardless of Faith's really silly most recent unsupported assertion, what is actually written and what has even been quoted in this and many other threads and what is actually written in Genesis 3 is...
quote: "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life" "lest " Meaning with the intention of preventing (something undesirable); to avoid the risk of. Not with the intention of preventing (something undesirable); to avoid the risk of it happening again. Everything in the story says that neither Adam nor Eve had eaten from the Tree of Life by the end of the story. And as expected, Faith has still not provided any evidence to support the topic "Fear of the Left the driving force in the west today". It seems Carny Apologists are not limited to Religious Fantasies.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: OK, I'll go with your argument. But so what? God told them they would die. The snake told them they would not die. Did they die? Eternal life was something to be obtained by eating from the Tree of Life. Thus it could not have been something they already had. And are humans now like God in that we know good and evil and we all are free to interpret what these terms each mean? You liberals certainly try and market the God you want. A nice touchy-feely God who accepts everybody as they are, requires no sanctification or surrender or change from them whatsoever but only expects that they work hard for the community like good little Marxists? Disgusting. Any replies to this post please put the religious-themed ones in one of the other threads. The only political point I make is that the Left interprets the words of Jesus as arguably Marxist. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh they knew WHAT the knowledge of good and evll was, they did have basic intellectual knowledge, they had to in order to understand that God forbade it. What they didn't have was full experiential knowledge that comes from experience, and unfortunately that's what they got when they disobeyed and ate the forbidden fruit.
============================ Just a note for anyone who still doesn't get it: it doesn't matter WHAT God forbade, the original sin wasn't about that, it was the fcct of DISOBEDIENCE that brought about the Fall. Somehow some Catholics got the idea what was forbidden was sex. Which makes no sense because there were only two of them at the time and they were a married couple. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar. ad nauseum writes: *sigh*. OK, everybody jar has a point. Lets abandon this religious argument in this thread and leave it to be the political thread it was intended to be. And as expected, Faith has still not provided any evidence to support the topic "Fear of the Left the driving force in the west today".Take quotes from here and put them in one of the other threads where the religious argument is happily burning away. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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