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Author
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Topic: Testing The Christian Apologists
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Phat
Member Posts: 17619 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1051 of 1086 (909008)
03-26-2023 12:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 1049 by nwr
03-26-2023 11:44 AM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
If you consider yourself to be a libertarian, why would you want to surrender? What do my politics have to do with my spirituality? I want to surrender to a Higher power. I dont want to surrender to common consensus. The people do not know the answer.
If you are a serious seeker of truth, why aren't you more skeptical of what you hear and read, including what you hear in church? Why aren't you looking for better evidence? There is no better evidence. Unlike some, I do not throw God away. I have found truth. my challenge is found in my ability and willingness to better live up to it. The rest of you can go and seek deeper truth all day until Sunday.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1049 by nwr, posted 03-26-2023 11:44 AM | | nwr has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1052 by Tangle, posted 03-26-2023 1:06 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 1053 by nwr, posted 03-26-2023 1:25 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9109 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.0
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Message 1052 of 1086 (909010)
03-26-2023 1:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 1051 by Phat
03-26-2023 12:01 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
Phat writes: The rest of you can go and seek deeper truth all day until Sunday. wtf are you talking about? There is no such thing as a 'deeper truth' and the only thing I surrender to is a nice scotch. Did you even start that thinking skills course?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1051 by Phat, posted 03-26-2023 12:01 PM | | Phat has replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6324 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.4
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Message 1053 of 1086 (909012)
03-26-2023 1:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 1051 by Phat
03-26-2023 12:01 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
What do my politics have to do with my spirituality? Is "libertarian" only about politics? And I had thought it was about how you interact with the world.
The rest of you can go and seek deeper truth all day until Sunday. For me, knowledge was always about how things work. It was never just about beliefs and whether they were true. And for me, Christianity was about actions, about what we do and how we interact with other people. It was never a matter of just having the orthodox beliefs. I left Christianity and religion, because so many of those who called themselves "Christian" were not even trying to act as Jesus taught. I remembered those words "by their fruits ye shall know them", and with that test I could tell that most so-called Christians did not fit my understanding of what a Christian should be.
--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1051 by Phat, posted 03-26-2023 12:01 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1058 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2023 4:56 PM | | nwr has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 17619 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1054 of 1086 (909014)
03-26-2023 4:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 1052 by Tangle
03-26-2023 1:06 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
Did you even start that thinking skills course? I did. I have not had time to finish it.
the only thing I surrender to is a nice scotch. Cheers.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1052 by Tangle, posted 03-26-2023 1:06 PM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1055 by Tangle, posted 03-26-2023 4:16 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9109 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.0
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Message 1055 of 1086 (909015)
03-26-2023 4:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 1054 by Phat
03-26-2023 4:05 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
Phat writes: I did. I have not had time to finish it. You gave up weeks ago. You have no intention of finishing it.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1054 by Phat, posted 03-26-2023 4:05 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Dredge
Member Posts: 2787 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 1056 of 1086 (909016)
03-26-2023 4:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 1052 by Tangle
03-26-2023 1:06 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
Tangled writes: There is no such thing as a 'deeper truth'
If this life is all there is, there is no 'deeper truth' ... there is only meaninglessness.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1052 by Tangle, posted 03-26-2023 1:06 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Dredge
Member Posts: 2787 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 1057 of 1086 (909017)
03-26-2023 4:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 1038 by AZPaul3
03-24-2023 2:51 AM
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APauling666 writes: Then you admit that, even you the cracker-munching creationist, acknowledge that life is a meaningless emergent property of matter and exists for no other reason than that it can.
Have I taught you nothing? This life has meaning iff (if and only if) there is an afterlife. Not even God can give a finite life meaning.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1038 by AZPaul3, posted 03-24-2023 2:51 AM | | AZPaul3 has not replied |
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Dredge
Member Posts: 2787 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 1058 of 1086 (909018)
03-26-2023 4:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 1053 by nwr
03-26-2023 1:25 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
nwr writes: I left Christianity and religion, because so many of those who called themselves "Christian" were not even trying to act as Jesus taught
So your "faith" depended on the actions of other people ... in other words you were never a Christain and your "faith" was fake.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1053 by nwr, posted 03-26-2023 1:25 PM | | nwr has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1061 by nwr, posted 03-26-2023 5:35 PM | | Dredge has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9109 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.0
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Message 1059 of 1086 (909019)
03-26-2023 5:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 1056 by Dredge
03-26-2023 4:44 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
Dredge writes: If this life is all there is, there is no 'deeper truth' ... there is only meaninglessness. Life is its own meaning. If you put aside your fantasies, you might discover it.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1056 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2023 4:44 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 8495 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 2.9
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Message 1060 of 1086 (909020)
03-26-2023 5:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 1056 by Dredge
03-26-2023 4:44 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
My children are not meaningless.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1056 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2023 4:44 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1067 by Dredge, posted 03-27-2023 8:58 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6324 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.4
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Message 1061 of 1086 (909022)
03-26-2023 5:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 1058 by Dredge
03-26-2023 4:56 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
So your "faith" depended on the actions of other people ... No, not at all. It was about my actions. And eventually, one of those actions was to leave the church and to leave organized religion.
--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1058 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2023 4:56 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1068 by Dredge, posted 03-27-2023 9:22 AM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4033 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 4.1
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Message 1062 of 1086 (909023)
03-26-2023 5:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 1056 by Dredge
03-26-2023 4:44 PM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
If this life is all there is, there is no 'deeper truth' ... there is only meaninglessness. How utterly sad for you.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1056 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2023 4:44 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1069 by Dredge, posted 03-27-2023 9:25 AM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 17619 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1063 of 1086 (909025)
03-27-2023 2:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 146 by Tangle
11-04-2019 5:45 PM
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Re: Bart Campolo
OK> I thought of this question you once posed and found a quick answer which you will agree with.
Cosmic Skeptic Short
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 146 by Tangle, posted 11-04-2019 5:45 PM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1064 by Tangle, posted 03-27-2023 2:44 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9109 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.0
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Message 1064 of 1086 (909026)
03-27-2023 2:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 1063 by Phat
03-27-2023 2:18 AM
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Re: Bart Campolo
I see the question, I don't see the answer?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1063 by Phat, posted 03-27-2023 2:18 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Stile
Member Posts: 4294 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: 12-02-2004 Member Rating: 3.7
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Message 1065 of 1086 (909028)
03-27-2023 8:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 1045 by Phat
03-25-2023 11:03 AM
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Re: Ya Gotta Have Stile
Phat writes: Objective meaning is better than subjective meaning. Okay, and let's see your explanation:
Similar people (seekers of truth)want similar things-and the secret to finding/having meaning is to identify the thing(s) that are/ is important to you and to strive to make progress on this goal in your life. It can be very difficult to do for some, but it's not a big secret on how to do it. Um... You just described subjective meaning.
"..identify the thing(s) that are/is important to you..." That's the very definition of subjective. So you claim that objective meaning is better than subjective, and then go on to explain how meaning works subjectively? I understand you may want the words "objective meaning" to mean something... but they don't. Because meaning is subjective... as you just described.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1045 by Phat, posted 03-25-2023 11:03 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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