Testing The Christian Apologists

Not so Phat, but there are steps involved in the act of Confession; first is acknowledging but that is also just the beginning; you must also apologize to those harmed, commit to not making the same error AND also making amends. Ravi and the rest of the Apologists will continue to be known by their fruits and so far there is no evidence that they are marketing some new improved snake oil.

Amazing how Ravi never really apologized or took responsibility for his lying. Yet you "forgive" him. How about listening to people that don't lie so you don't have to forgive them for lying to you.

Why would he say something he didn’t mean? In an entire life he would have said hundreds of thousands of things, we can reasonably suppose that those few that got written down for posterity - guided by god himself you tell us - are to be taken seriously.The spirit being weak is always the excuse, us being fallen an’ all, but it truth all that’s happening is a that you’ve hit on an inconvenience in the comforting message that you’d rather wasn’t there so you’ll put it to one side and pretend it’s not really meant.Just like you push the impossibility of a loving god that allows his children to suffer and die to one side. He moves in mysterious ways my arse.Humankind has created a god shaped comfort blanket covered in thorns that have to be flattened before it’s of any use. But they keep popping back up don’t they?

If?If there is an argument against what Jesus said, for God's sake, tell us what it is. If the apologists have a "better" version, tell us what it is.I'll repeat what I've said many times before: There is a definite trend in the Bible.The only counter-argument that you have presented is that Zacchaeus offered half of what he had. (We are not told whether he got away with it.) Do the apologists have a better argument? You can be as annoyed as you like but I suppose you won't be able to deny it any more. Forgiveness requires repentance. We don't forgive Charles Manson serially every time he murders somebody. He has to stop.Ravi Zaccharias lies about what the Bible says. You continue to believe his lies. There is no place for forgiveness there.

Happy New Year, Mike! This coming from Thugzy to "The Wiz". (Shall we research the word, "Wiz"? ) Of course I am not involved in some ancient Indian Blood Cult, but how thoughtful that you noticed! I am up bright and early on this New Years' day primarily because I believe that it is better to start a new year fresh, sober, and enthusiastic rather than end a year high as a kite, sleeping in late on the morning of the New Year. And before we go any further in this reply, I want everyone to note that I am transferring this post and this discussion from a Science Topic, where Stile lays out a basic evidence-based argument on God to the Apologetic Thread. This post will appear in both threads, but I want to draw a clear line between evidence-based thinking and Biblical Inspiration, which our fascinating friend jar trashes as a PT Barnum Circus sideshow.
***************************************************************
To all who seek to reply to this post, I shall offer you two choices.
Faith Based & Apologetic Responses here. ***************************************************************
I am replying to you, Ringo but also to Mike The Wiz from our science topic, Here.Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

There is no response to me over there.

I'm through with Ravi. He no longer impresses me and is just another Christian Apologist in my book. If everyone recalls, I said earlier in Message 104 that Bart Campolo, a secular humanist chaplain at the University of Cincinnati was my example of an honest apologist. Now, 3 months later, I have gotten to talk with him and he featured me on his Humanize Me podcast. For those interested, the advice he gives me is quite good and it is honest, in my opinion. I am only on the podcast as a recorded voice, but he spends 30 minutes giving me good advice.
In The Pew But Questioning #504I also had an hour interactive chat with him on Skype. That he took time to talk with me was quite a blessing. Yes, some of what he said hurts, but I feel the tough love of a qualified counselor...a trait that many pastors do not have. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Edited by Thugpreacha, : better sub title

I recently purchased David Platt's book on Audible. Something Needs to Change: A Call to Make Your Life Count in a World of Urgent Need I am listening to it the next few days. It looked good. Platt is not a professional apologist but rather an author. My jury is still out whether or not he is trustworthy as a source for contemplation or whether I am merely helping him earn a living. He talks a good talk. Stay tuned.

I do. Quite simply, giving everything is more symbolic than literal. Anyone foolish enough to give every spare loonie that they have (including in the bank) away would soon find themselves homeless with the ones they are trying to help.To be honest, the gambling problem that I struggled with hurt me more than had i simply given that money away. At 60 years old, I count the years until retirement. To me, retiring does not mean sitting around living a good life while others starve or are homeless, but it also does not mean selling all I have and becoming homeless myself. Can I count on Social Security? Can I count that there are enough socialist progressives to find a way to refund Social Security and take care of my basic needs?This book by David Platt was purchased with those questions in mind. Stay tuned for some feedback as to whether the book has value in influencing my beliefs and actions.

So Ananias and Sapphira were "symbolically" killed? So the church at Rome was foolish?

It was a different era. Christians were persecuted and few of them had much money at all. In today's age, there is enough money in the social safety nets that even poor people have enough to eat. My point is this: If you are not poor, why on earth would you make yourself poor?Look at it this way. If I were virtually homeless to begin with, giving away the last 5 dollars in my pocket would gain me some friends who may help me later on, were they able. If I was a basic worker with a basic rental house, however, I would need more money or I too would be homeless. While true that I could theoretically give many more people $5.00, once I gave a hundred of them that much, I would be unable to pay rent and would soon land out on the park bench with them. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

It's not hard to understand Phat, it's because that's what your book tells you that you should do. Over and over.Of course no-one in their right mind would do it, and nobody does - not even Faith who claims to be a biblical literalist, but that's not the point is it? It's very easy to rationalise away the message, but it's still there in black and white.The churches themselves are the biggest hypocrite of the lot of you, becoming some of the richest institutions in the world.Matthew 19:21 ESV / 234Jesus said to him, If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.Proverbs 28:27 ESV / 210Whoever gives to the poor will not want, but he who hides his eyes will get many a curse.Mark 12:41-44 ESV / 187And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. And he called his disciples to him and said to them, Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.Luke 21:1-4 ESV / 178Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. And he said, Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on Organisation WorthThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints $67.0bn (alleged to be as much as $100.0 billion)
Catholic Church Germany $25bn
Catholic Church Australia $30bn
Church of England $7.8bn
Opus Dei (part of the Catholic Church) $2.8bn
Church of Scientology $2bn
Catholic Church Vatican $30bnList of wealthiest religious organizations - WikipediaEdited by Tangle, : No reason given.

You're making that up. Look at the story of the widow who gave Elijah her last morsel of food. She was provided for.Why would you not trust God to take care of you?

It may be the case that I don't trust ringo to take care of me. Or any of my friends here in Denver. After all, you yourself said that all evidence points to us having to do it ourselves. As for God, I'm not entirely sure what His intentions are.
All I can speak of with any degree of evidence is humans.Thank God for social security! I am due to receive a modest sum in a few years....which at current rates will pay the rent and the heat and lights. After that is all paid, I will have perhaps $100.00 a week for food and entertainment. I may have to end up using the library computer as you do! Jesus may provide our needs, and we are charged to help others, but you need to be a bit clearer as to what YOU expect Christians to do in regards to following their book. OK lets have a look. Looks like she gave the last of what she had--part of it anyway--and it miraculously lasted 7 days. I'm not sure I have enough faith to trust that my last loaf of bread is enough for me while handing out money to the poor hand over fist.

What does that have to do with God taking care of you?