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Author Topic:   Testing The Christian Apologists
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 396 of 1086 (867424)
11-24-2019 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by jar
11-24-2019 4:16 PM


Re: the test that the Apologists fail
jar writes:
All of the Christian Apologist fail miserably as examples of what Christianity should be...
And just who are you to say what Christianity *should be* any more than they or I? I happen to believe that what you market is most certainly not what Christianity should be, apart from your exhortation to feed, clothe, and comfort.
... but are great examples of the Carny Midway spiels.
And just what evidence do you have that mainstream preaching and teaching in any way equates to carny schpiels? At best, you don't like it. Its ok...I dont like your message either. Namely:
jar, in various quotes from Belief Statement writes:
I would say that anyone who professes to be a Christian is a Christian. I never doubt that anyone who says they are a Christian is one.
In other words, God saves everybody.
Why do we need to tell the real Christians from the others? Aren't they all real Christians?
Only if you believe that anyone and everyone can simply become one with no strings attached.
I personally am sure of my belief, but honesty compels me to say I know I could be wrong.
I will agree with that. We wont know 100% untuil after we die, if then.
Santa is, for me, very real. Santa lives inside each of us that carries on his work, that sacrifice hours and knuckles and moments when we could be doing more enjoyable things...
I agree except to sy that I believe in One Holy Spirit and that if there were a spirit of Santa Claus it would in fact be the Holy Spirit
I believe that there is GOD. One true GOD. Religion, whether Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or Taoism or Wicca or Satanism or Hinduism or any other form is but a human centric search for that GOD.
Religion is but a Map, not the Territory. It is a human construct and subject to all the limitations, the lack of knowledge, the misconceptions, the contemporary points of view as any other human construct. Christianity is no more GOD than Judaism is. They are but tools used by man to try to understand something that is beyond human comprehension.
The question is, do you believe that Jesus is God? (Gods character) Because without that, God is simply a He, She, or It to you.
Yes, I believe that Jesus Christ is GOD and that He came down as a human, a man, to be a teacher. But that does not make other religions wrong.
I try not to limit GOD. I see no reason to limit either how GOD can reach out to people or how people can reach out to GOD. You specifically mention Islam and the fact that they do not recognize Jesus as being GOD as though that were some great point. Frankly, I don't see the import. I disagree with them, but that does not make me right or wrong. Neither of us knows, both of us believe.
I will agree with you here, though I don't believe that other people with different beliefs can or should ignore Jesus, especially if He is present at the day of judgment.
I believe that Jesus Christ is GOD incarnate.
Im glad you stated that. It is often hard to get you to say that.
jar writes:
I am a Christian. So that does define those beliefs. But they are defined for me. Others may and should hold different beliefs. It is personal
Then why accuse so many mainstream Christian leaders of being dishonest hucksters? The vast majority whom I've met are honest, in my opinion. They are not trying to con anybody.
As to the difference between belief and knowledge, yes, many folk KNOW, and are usually quick to tell you so. I believe. I personally believe I am right, but I do realize I could be wrong.
As to the whole thread, particularly the title, "Belief Statement".
This was an attempt to put into a short statement something that took over 60 years to experience. Much was left out, far more left out than I included. I really believe the actual Belief Statement is the one you live.
I can't argue with that. My current problem with you is that you are preaching a different Gospel than your own words in your Belief Statement professed. Let's take your admonition to throw God away. You never mentioned that back then. Why do you find it important to preach it now? And finally, why do we need evidence that the apologists are rights? They may or may not be, but they are not dishonest. That evidence is your job. As you said, Belief is personal. Quit attacking mainstream Christianity.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by jar, posted 11-24-2019 4:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by jar, posted 11-24-2019 4:40 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 398 of 1086 (867432)
11-25-2019 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 397 by jar
11-24-2019 4:40 PM


Re: the test that the Apologists fail
jar writes:
I don't try to say what Christianity should be, I simply point to what the Bible says.
jar, in Message 395
quote:
All of the Christian Apologist fail miserably as examples of what Christianity should be but are great examples of the Carny Midway spiels.
To be fair, I don't accuse you of attempting to define Christianity or what a Christian should be, though you have no basis for the blanket accusation that so many are carny barkers and hucksters. At best you accuse them of making stuff up to support their position. Would you like me to show where you have done the same thing?
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by jar, posted 11-24-2019 4:40 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by jar, posted 11-25-2019 7:14 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 400 of 1086 (867441)
11-25-2019 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 399 by jar
11-25-2019 7:14 AM


Re: the test that the Apologists fail
jar, referring to all Christian Apologists writes:
As long as they are trying to sell the silly notion of Biblical Inerrancy or "God Breathed" or "Single Purpose" or "that Jesus is found in the Old Testament" then yes Phat, they are all simply Carny Sideshow Spiel-men.
I disagree. And I charge that as long as you are trying to suggest that your own silly notions of "throw God away", and "even if Jesus was just a tale told around campfires the message has value" and "Christianity is about what YOU do and not about what He did" and "God lied and the snake told the truth" then you are no better. It may be what you think Christianity should be but the rest of us Christians don't buy it. Your message might sell at an atheists convention but littlewhere else. You can claim to be a believer and it is nobodies business but your own and I respect that you are a Christian. I also am well aware of what the book says.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by jar, posted 11-25-2019 7:14 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by jar, posted 11-25-2019 12:07 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 403 of 1086 (867445)
11-25-2019 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by ringo
11-25-2019 11:13 AM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
I agree. Let's just throw the book away. May as well read Long John Silver.
It isn't "the book I use". It's the book you use.
How would you like someone coming along and trying to explain to you what Treasure Island really means? With no regard or respect for your interpretation?
You would tell them to get lost unless they made the story any better. What you guys do is make the story into an allegory for humanist community building. Which is fine...just throw the Christianity away. You never use it anyway. And I will keep the charge to go feed, clothe and comfort the community. Many of my fellow Christians already do. And when critics call them carny barkers and conmen, I get offended. I bet we feed more people than your local salvation army or red cross does. What gets the humanists mad is the "Christian" part. They cant stand proselytes.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by ringo, posted 11-25-2019 11:13 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by ringo, posted 11-25-2019 11:44 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 408 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 12:07 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 409 of 1086 (867455)
11-25-2019 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 12:07 PM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
First of all would you like to provide some evidence for this claim? I thought not.
You thought wrong.
My friend volunteers for David CliftonMinistries, which has a food bank and he runs the soup kitchen and assists the Pastor. According to him, they feed an average of 75-100 people per day except when the weather is bad when they can feed 200.
I can look into the stats for other faith-based ministries, but what do you care? You don't seem to trust anything I say anyway. All Im trying to say is that the local church helps as many people as do the secular organizations, excluding the state itself.
And why does it burn? What do you care who feeds the needy as long as they get fed?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 12:07 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 12:53 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 411 of 1086 (867460)
11-25-2019 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 406 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 11:49 AM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
Theo writes:
What matters is what he and the fundies want it to mean.
Case closed.
Not even. Do you really think we are gonna take a bunch of atheists seriously when they try and teach us what the Bible means? That would be almost as laughable as you listening to Alexandria Ocasio Cortez's attempt to explain economics to Milton Friedman! (Although he is dead, so no, that would not be funny )
Seriously, despite my usuing the appeal to popularity, I will trust the majority over a literalist socialist atheist minority. As for jar, he is on his own planet anyway. I dont find many Anglicans agreeing with him on everything.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 11:49 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 412 of 1086 (867461)
11-25-2019 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 12:53 PM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
OK, you win. I did open my mouth first. Now can we move on? Im more concerned about how ringo attempts to define what my religion should be teaching. You all seem to get so mad when the creationists do that in schools and yet you are trying to teach us what the Bible really says as if you have any clue beyond your secular critical exegesis.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 12:53 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 413 of 1086 (867470)
11-25-2019 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by ringo
11-25-2019 11:13 AM


Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
Phat writes:
You don't even believe that the character exists outside of the book.
ringo writes:
What has that got to do with reading what the book says?
because many of us believe that Jesus speaks through the scriptures, teaching you as you study. There has been many a Bible study where we read passages we have read before and get a fresh interpretation.
ringo writes:
I agree that the Christianity dilutes the secular humanism, so let's get rid of the Christianity entirely.
I knew that you valued socialism more than the messenger. Your socialism will break down along with the rest of the world systems when the fossil fuels run out and the oceans rise. Watch Christianity take off and grow exponentially. Then you really will have a lot of nuts and false prophets to deal with, as will we.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by ringo, posted 11-25-2019 11:13 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 4:56 PM Phat has replied
 Message 423 by ringo, posted 11-26-2019 10:47 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 415 of 1086 (867477)
11-25-2019 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 4:56 PM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
From what I understand, its basically collective ownership. Nothing is privately owned. As long as I'm not forced to share my home with a bunch of street people, I can tolerate it. Some areas of life remain sacred. I could care less if I'm ever rich, but I do consider some things mine and nobody else's.
And I don't want the government messing with my freedom of religion, speech, or keeping their hand in my wallet.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 4:56 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2019 6:07 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 418 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 11:28 PM Phat has replied
 Message 424 by ringo, posted 11-26-2019 10:51 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 419 of 1086 (867487)
11-26-2019 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 11:28 PM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
But do you know human nature? Look at History. When great Empires collapse, they often implode and it takes more than socialism to keep the people safe. It often degrades into fearful leaders hiring armed thugs to protect them. Do you see that in America's possible future? Otherwise, any excess bounty we have will be picked clean by the vultures...sorta like what the US did to the Natives of many lands, only in reverse. I try not to act like an entitled European, nor do I advocate any sort of racial conflicts, but I honestly feel that there will be cultural wars and that those of us who grew up having it good will find life much more difficult. Thats a fear I have. Perhaps I am being irrational. A good Christian would accept their lot in life.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 11:28 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by jar, posted 11-26-2019 7:21 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 421 by Theodoric, posted 11-26-2019 8:29 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 426 of 1086 (867885)
12-04-2019 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by ringo
11-26-2019 10:51 AM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
ringo writes:
It's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Contribute what you can, get what you need. It's exactly what Jesus taught.
Apparently, Ananias and Saphira did not have the ability to let go of literally everything they owned. Many in today's world would have the same issue. Shall they all simply be struck dead for not surrendering everything to..wait for it..not Jesus or His Apostles but to a secular government ran by fallible humans? If that is the conclusion, I'm giving what I can, holding on to what I need, and may God strike me dead if I'm wrong.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by ringo, posted 11-26-2019 10:51 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by ringo, posted 12-04-2019 3:20 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 428 by Theodoric, posted 12-04-2019 3:27 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 429 of 1086 (867889)
12-04-2019 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by ringo
11-26-2019 10:47 AM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
ringo writes:
Christianity is already struggling. It will go the way of Zeus.
On this one, I am quite sure you will be proven wrong. Times will get tougher. People will organize into collectives to survive. Some collectives will be secular and some "spiritual". Within the spiritual groups will be both fake and real Christians. You will know them by their fruits and by their politics.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by ringo, posted 11-26-2019 10:47 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by ringo, posted 12-04-2019 3:36 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 431 of 1086 (867892)
12-04-2019 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 428 by Theodoric
12-04-2019 3:27 PM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
You are conflating two issues. One is what Jesus would have us do...that one im arguing with ringo exclusively. The other is your charge that I dont understand democratic socialism. I may be guilty of that one, but I can google with the best of them. As I have stated before, I am in favor of a moderate government. Let me keep control over some of my stuff. I'm not afraid to pay taxes, but I am afraid of any sort of collective responsibility which puts me on the hook of taking care of all of the poor impoverished masses globally. To whom much is given, much is required. The US middle class is shrinking precisely because the rest of the world is now interconnected and we were wealthier relative to them so now we are losing more percentage-wise as they escape poverty.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by Theodoric, posted 12-04-2019 3:27 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 432 by Theodoric, posted 12-04-2019 4:59 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 433 of 1086 (867980)
12-05-2019 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 432 by Theodoric
12-04-2019 4:59 PM


Re: You should learn what socialism is before you talk about it
Tell me again how the poor people getting a better life is causing you economic pain.
It seems pretty simple to me. The rich have manipulated the system so that they keep their money and leave the responsibility of helping the poor on the middle class. My point is that socialism will never be implemented as long as the wealthy keep their power. But when I point this out to ringo, he seems to suggest that if the "cushy" middle class sacrificed more, the poor would be better off and it would be no big deal for the middle to get knocked down a rung or two. I disagree.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Theodoric, posted 12-04-2019 4:59 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 434 by ringo, posted 12-05-2019 2:40 PM Phat has replied
 Message 437 by Theodoric, posted 12-05-2019 4:41 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 435 of 1086 (867985)
12-05-2019 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 434 by ringo
12-05-2019 2:40 PM


Re: You should learn what socialism is before you talk about it
OK, that's a decent argument. I likely misunderstand socialism because I see it in the microcosm of union politics. If too many new people get hired, the union benefits because of more union dues, the company benefits because of cheaper labor, but the senior union members then have to share their hours and end up taking home less.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by ringo, posted 12-05-2019 2:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 436 by ringo, posted 12-05-2019 3:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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