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Author Topic:   Being offended.
Phat
Member
Posts: 17481
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 391 of 444 (905816)
02-04-2023 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 384 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 10:36 AM


Imagine A Bot With Feelings
In this crazy world, we all have to respect other people's "feelings" even to the point of acknowledging feelings as fact. I could care less what you self-identify as. Archaeologists will confirm that someday regardless of how one "feels".

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 10:36 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7857
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(3)
Message 392 of 444 (905819)
02-04-2023 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 387 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 11:23 PM


No, it gave me the answer I thought was correct ...
So the toy seemed to you to confirm your anti-science right-wing bias regardless of how it factually responded.
You dim witted religionist fascists are big on confirmation bias. You see it everywhere you can manipulate the narrative. You see it burnt onto burritos, for god sake.
If someone could show me why I am wrong, I will change my mind.
No you won't. You already know the difference between faith and fact but vehemently deny it because it destroys your god.
If god herself came down and told you she was but a figment of your imagination, a fake deity as are all deities, you would deny her very existence refusing to hear her.
Facts and reality mean nothing to you, Rat. There is nothing in the fake heaven or the real earth, or in your toy conversation piece, that would make you change your closed mediocre little mind.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:23 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 12:35 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 393 of 444 (905857)
02-04-2023 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by AZPaul3
02-04-2023 9:07 AM


Of course I know the difference between faith and fact. It seems you don't know the difference between that and what I was asking it. Who is dim witted now? Listen I understand that realizing that the system you believe in requires faith (notice the redundancy) is a tough pill to swallow.
If I ask you if the sun will rise tomorrow, you cannot tell me with 100% certainty that it will until it is observed. You have to believe it will.
If I tell you there is a heaven, I cannot say it with 100% certainty, we can only believe there is.
It's a very simple premise, please show me how I am wrong, preferably without insults to make it more convincing.
FYI my whole life is based on observation and fact. Cannot live without it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by AZPaul3, posted 02-04-2023 9:07 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by ringo, posted 02-04-2023 12:53 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 395 by AZPaul3, posted 02-04-2023 5:14 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 394 of 444 (905862)
02-04-2023 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by riVeRraT
02-04-2023 12:35 PM


riVeRraT writes:
It's a very simple premise, please show me how I am wrong....
It's an error of degree. We have thousands of instances when it DID happen and no instances when it didn't happen. That's pretty significant statistically.
On the other hand, we have NO evidence that any god ever made a difference.
Lots of evidence versus NO evidence. Statistically highly probable versus ZERO probability.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 12:35 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 10:12 PM ringo has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7857
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 395 of 444 (905882)
02-04-2023 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by riVeRraT
02-04-2023 12:35 PM


If I ask you if the sun will rise tomorrow, you cannot tell me with 100% certainty that it will until it is observed. You have to believe it will.
No, you religious fanatic. We can extrapolate from experience and have a near certain confidence that the physics will work as it always has.
The only ones who dabble in 100% certainty are religious idiots certain of their ghost's voice in their heads.
If I tell you there is a heaven, I cannot say it with 100% certainty, we can only believe there is.
No. You have 0% certainty since you have no evidentiary basis to form such a ridiculous conjecture. Without evidence your heaven is 0% certain, 100% non-existent.
FYI my whole life is based on observation and fact. Cannot live without it.
Oh bullshit! You believe in non-existent ghosts, demons, devils and more all in contradiction to the facts. Do you have talking snakes or jesus meat crackers in your version of reality?
You love facts? How old is the earth? What is the last common ancestor to both humans and elephants? What does the CMB tell us of the structure of the universe?
There are facts (not opinions or guesses or beliefs or hopes or dreams) to answer every one of these questions. If you love facts then you will know these answers, why these answers are as they are and know that you haven't the capacity to challenge the science involved.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 12:35 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 10:53 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 396 of 444 (905886)
02-04-2023 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by ringo
02-04-2023 12:53 PM


Lots of evidence versus NO evidence. Statistically highly probable versus ZERO probability
See, you don't understand science. Zero probability would prove God doesn't exist. Nothing in science is ever proven.
Of course there are levels of faith, Jesus even expressed that.
There is plenty of evidence God exist, it's just subjective.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by ringo, posted 02-04-2023 12:53 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by AZPaul3, posted 02-04-2023 10:43 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 398 by AZPaul3, posted 02-04-2023 10:48 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 400 by nwr, posted 02-04-2023 10:54 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 419 by ringo, posted 02-05-2023 1:15 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7857
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 397 of 444 (905887)
02-04-2023 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by riVeRraT
02-04-2023 10:12 PM


There is plenty of evidence God exist, it's just subjective.
Which means your evidence doesn't exist. Neither, then, does your god.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 10:12 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7857
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 398 of 444 (905888)
02-04-2023 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by riVeRraT
02-04-2023 10:12 PM


Zero probability would prove God doesn't exist. Nothing in science is ever proven.
No, religious idiot. Nothing is proven. Zero probability means we have a great deal of confidence that your ghost is not there.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 10:12 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 399 of 444 (905889)
02-04-2023 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by AZPaul3
02-04-2023 5:14 PM


No, you religious fanatic. We can extrapolate from experience and have a near certain confidence that the physics will work as it always has
LOLOLOLOL. Thanks for proving me right. Let's use your own words. Definition of "near certain confidence" = high level of trust = high level of faith = faith.
Please show me where I said that the laws of physics wouldn't happen. You just assumed that is what I meant by saying there is a possibility the sun won't rise tomorrow. How very scientific of you. You are just another person in here who does not practice what they preach.
The only ones who dabble in 100% certainty are religious idiots certain of their ghost's voice in their heads
Wrong. Jesus said if you have enough faith, you can move a mountain. Pretty sure no one has that kind of faith. Not a single Christian has 100% faith. If they say that, they are lying.
No. You have 0% certainty since you have no evidentiary basis to form such a ridiculous conjecture. Without evidence your heaven is 0% certain, 100% non-existent
I have evidence, it's just subjective. Just like my love for my children is subjective.
you love facts then you will know these answers, why these answers are as they are and know that you haven't the capacity to challenge the science involved
There were people in the bible who saw God's works and still didn't believe. I guess that's why Jesus had to come.
What are you the god of science? Lmao. I've already proven in this forum that I have a firm grasp of science and how it works. I am a master of 3 different trades over 40 years, was a director of facilities for a large medical facility, and do 3d design using solidworks, and 3d printing for over 10 years. I design and program drones for fun. I am an expert at troubleshooting which requires the same skills as the scientific method. Currently learning Unreal 5.1 and designing my own game. This is only some of what I know and do.
But you know what, one day I had a problem that was going to take a day or to figure out, and a voice in my head said cut the yellow wire. It worked. Go figure. Thank you God!
Another time I had a dream that this building was going to be destroyed in a storm while I was visiting Puerto Rico. 2 days later we were driving down the highway and I saw the building in my dream. My brother-in-law knew the building. It was under construction. It was going to be a massive church, and another building about creation science. We went into the building and I just happened to run into the owner who was a Pastor. I told him my dream and he blew me off, in a nice way. His ministry crashed because of a huge controversey and the construction stopped, then hurricane Maria destroyed the building. Go figure. I don't know why this happened to me, but it did. If someone told me this story 30 years ago, I would say they are nuts.
Subjective? Yep.
You have no position to try and make assumptions about me, you don't know anything about me and are a wrong for even trying. You can't even stay on topic, because you have an evil heart. All you care to do is attack people you don't even know, kind of resembles a child in kindergarten starting fights with the other children. That's what I see in the spiritual world.
It's a good thing I have learned how not to be offended and could give 2 shits what you think. What you do to me is between God an you, God sees your behavior and understands why, and will judge you accordingly, so I will let God deal with you in His own way.
The fiunniest part of all this is that you probably think that learning how not to offend someone has more value, yet all you do is try to offend me.Am I wrong, if I am, then I am still right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by AZPaul3, posted 02-04-2023 5:14 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by xongsmith, posted 02-05-2023 6:19 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 402 by AZPaul3, posted 02-05-2023 8:50 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 420 by ringo, posted 02-05-2023 1:38 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6296
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 400 of 444 (905890)
02-04-2023 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by riVeRraT
02-04-2023 10:12 PM


See, you don't understand science. Zero probability would prove God doesn't exist.
You don't understand mathematics -- specifically the mathematics of probability theory. Zero probability events can happen.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 10:12 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by riVeRraT, posted 02-06-2023 10:29 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2442
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 401 of 444 (905895)
02-05-2023 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 399 by riVeRraT
02-04-2023 10:53 PM


Rat finks in the belfry
Rat suggests:
Definition of "near certain confidence" = high level of trust = high level of faith = faith.
What whale dreck this is. "Faith" is immutable while "near certain confidence" can change.
Science right now is analyzing the JWST observations to determine the new confidence in the so-called Big Bang Theory and has run into some speed bumps, mostly due to a lack of good data from the previous observations made by earlier equipment.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 10:53 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 9:52 AM xongsmith has not replied
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7857
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 402 of 444 (905897)
02-05-2023 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 399 by riVeRraT
02-04-2023 10:53 PM


Faith = Religious Stupidity
Definition of "near certain confidence" = high level of trust = high level of faith = faith.
First faith = stupidity, not confidence.
Faith is the emotional hope something will happen by wishful thinking regardless of reality. Confidence is the intellectual knowledge of workings and the reasonable expectation of coming events. Your errant religious view is not but self-serving bull.
I realize you have problems with the difference. You know the superiority of science over faith. That is why the science that keeps denying your god must be seen dragged down to the non-intellectual realm of faith.
In your eyes science must be seen as a faith derivative so that it fails to destroy your god. Too late.
Science stands far above faith, divination, your religious lies, as the source of knowledge of reality. Your priests have divined nothing in their millennia of rule over humanity. Your religion creates only war and bloodshed. Faith has yielded nothing but torture and pain.
I have evidence, it's just subjective. Just like my love for my children is subjective.
Then you do not have evidence. Subjective is your emotional judgement, not reality. Your emotion has no force in this world and means nothing to the operations of the universe.
That's right, Rat. Your emotions don't mean jack shit to this universe. Subjective means you have nothing.
You have no position to try and make assumptions about me ...
Of course I can. You are a religious nutjob. You have said so many time in these threads. That means you have a glaring intellectual deficiency discerning reality. You insist on ghosts despite the physical reality showing otherwise.
You have a screw loose in your brain; a defect of mental structure that covers reality from your view and causes you to misthink fantastic stupidities without correction.
You are a religionist, Rat, and that means your intellect processing power, critical thinking skills and knowledge base are not just deficient but pose dangers to the rest of society.
Frankly, these 'assumptions' about you are glaringly obvious, quite rightly made and accurate.
yet all you do is try to offend me. Am I wrong, if I am, then I am still right.
You are an offensive person. You are a liar perpetrating your religion as an evil fantasy in the human psyche. History has shown your religious thought fosters nothing but schism, blood and torture for humanity.
As a purveyor of religious stupidity you are an evil offensive person and should be treated as such.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2023 10:53 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 403 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 9:43 AM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 428 by riVeRraT, posted 02-06-2023 11:05 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17481
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 403 of 444 (905898)
02-05-2023 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 402 by AZPaul3
02-05-2023 8:50 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
AZ Shaman of Science writes:
Faith is the emotional hope something will happen by wishful thinking regardless of reality. Confidence is the intellectual knowledge of workings and the reasonable expectation of coming events. Your errant religious view is not but self-serving bull.
Do you want to know what your counterpart fables are to our "Bronze Age Myths? Try Star Wars. Try Star Trek. Many Nerds worship that stuff! Though the technological part is plausible if not likely, the human element is the wishful part. You all naively hope and expect that humans will ditch old time mythos and adopt brand new godless and hopeful mythos. Only you dont see it as mythos...you see it as sanity.
I didn't just decide to make up what I believe, though it could be argued that I adjust and interpret the original dogma as I go.
Critics say that our mythos is cruel and unloving. Harmful in fact. You for one hate it with an antitheistic passion! And yet when I have talked with you you are such a nice reasonable guy! ( I even expect jar to chime in and try and dismantle my argument...he is good at that you know)
My argument is that for all realistic purposes, the new "mythos" is no better than the old "mythos".
Meet the new Boss. Same as the old Boss. ~~The WHO, We Won't Get Fooled Again.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by AZPaul3, posted 02-05-2023 8:50 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by xongsmith, posted 02-05-2023 10:03 AM Phat has replied
 Message 408 by nwr, posted 02-05-2023 10:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 413 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2023 10:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 421 by ringo, posted 02-05-2023 1:48 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17481
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 404 of 444 (905899)
02-05-2023 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by xongsmith
02-05-2023 6:19 AM


Re: Rat finks in the belfry
xongsmith writes:
Science right now is analyzing the JWST observations to determine the new confidence in the so-called Big Bang Theory and has run into some speed bumps, mostly due to a lack of good data from the previous observations made by earlier equipment.
I really like astronomy! Its hard to argue with the data. As I said to AZ, the technological hopes for the future are inevitable, barring financial concerns and shortage of essential materials.
I respect and appreciate your optimism. My problem is that I'm not as optimistic about human nature as you guys are. Perhaps it is unfounded fear, but deep down I sense a major crises before we get a major breakthrough.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by xongsmith, posted 02-05-2023 6:19 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2442
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


(3)
Message 405 of 444 (905901)
02-05-2023 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by Phat
02-05-2023 9:43 AM


Re: Faith = Religious Stupidity
Phat writes:
...Try Star Wars. Try Star Trek. Many Nerds worship that stuff!...
No True Nerd does!

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 9:43 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 406 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 10:12 AM xongsmith has not replied
 Message 407 by AZPaul3, posted 02-05-2023 10:18 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
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