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Author Topic:   Exposing the evolution theory. Part 2
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1066 of 1104 (913083)
10-10-2023 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1064 by Percy
10-10-2023 5:31 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
So now you think you are smart by letting chatGPT respond for you?
How about you prove that nobody on this forum considers common ancestry to be a fact? Because you keep making these unlikely claims without any proof.
And also proof that nothing is 100% certain. Because I don't care about your subjective opinions. Prove it or stop posting it as the only valid opinion or the only truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1064 by Percy, posted 10-10-2023 5:31 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1068 by Percy, posted 10-10-2023 9:24 PM sensei has replied
 Message 1069 by AZPaul3, posted 10-10-2023 9:24 PM sensei has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22694
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1067 of 1104 (913084)
10-10-2023 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1063 by WookieeB
10-10-2023 4:49 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Thirdly, the "evolution" they are referring to is merely what has been observed, which is (as much as can be) a fact. But the question that is being pondered relates to the mechanism of what produced what is observed. Though often described by the same word "evolution", the observation and what produced the observation are totally different things.
You've pretty much captured it. The two things are the fact of evolution and the theory of evolution. What you called "what is observed" is the fact of evolution. What you called "the mechanism of what produced what is observed" is the theory of evolution.
The reason it's confusing is because the skepticism of creationism makes no sense. No one talks about atoms as fact and theory because no one doubts that atoms exist, but creationists don't accept that evolution ever happened, so we're forced to talk about the facts of evolution independently of the theory of evolution.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1063 by WookieeB, posted 10-10-2023 4:49 PM WookieeB has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22694
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1068 of 1104 (913085)
10-10-2023 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1066 by sensei
10-10-2023 8:05 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensei writes:
So now you think you are smart by letting chatGPT respond for you?
I'm trying a variety of techniques to persuade you of the reality of your lack of engagement and absence of actual discussion in this thread.
How about you prove that nobody on this forum considers common ancestry to be a fact?
In Message 1060 I made clear that I was referring to people in science or here in this thread discussing this with you. Concerning UCA I think most in this thread consider it very likely but not a fact. I agree with Tangle's characterization of it as a hypothesis but a very strong one.
And also proof that nothing is 100% certain. Because I don't care about your subjective opinions. Prove it or stop posting it as the only valid opinion or the only truth.
There's no such thing as proof within science. Proofs are the realm of mathematics. Science must, by it's very nature as explained excellently well by Granny Magda in Message 1057, can only be tentative. Certainty isn't possible.
We're still waiting for you to tell us about all these scientists claiming absolute truth.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1066 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 8:05 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1070 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 9:59 PM Percy has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8613
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1069 of 1104 (913086)
10-10-2023 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1066 by sensei
10-10-2023 8:05 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
How about you prove that nobody on this forum considers common ancestry to be a fact?
He can't because, I for one, do consider common descent to be a 100% proven fact of evolution. Well, ok, as 100% as science allows, which, at this confidence level is so strong as to allow me to conclude 100% certainty because I damned well want to define it that way whether the universe allows that reality or not. The practical reality is so compelling as to not care about my logic error. Common ancestry, LUCA, is a fact, absolutely.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1066 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 8:05 PM sensei has not replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1070 of 1104 (913087)
10-10-2023 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1068 by Percy
10-10-2023 9:24 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
See reply of Paul. I wonder if you are now man enough to admit that your claim was false and that I was right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1068 by Percy, posted 10-10-2023 9:24 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1071 by AZPaul3, posted 10-10-2023 10:28 PM sensei has not replied
 Message 1072 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2023 10:57 PM sensei has replied
 Message 1076 by Percy, posted 10-11-2023 7:41 AM sensei has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8613
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1071 of 1104 (913088)
10-10-2023 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1070 by sensei
10-10-2023 9:59 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
His claim wasn't false. You just do not comprehend humans.
My view does not alter what Percy said or implied. I am please it got you so riled. That's a good thing as it was crafted to get in your craw. Besides, you know I made an error in that? You didn't see it? I pointed it out.
Regardless.
LUCA is a fact. Whether you find me right or wrong means nothing to the fact that LUCA or something very much like that had to occur in practice for what we see today. That makes it a fact. LUCA is a fact.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1070 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 9:59 PM sensei has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9361
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 1072 of 1104 (913089)
10-10-2023 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1070 by sensei
10-10-2023 9:59 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Are you 12? Are you truly this dense? Notice that no one supports you. Maybe you should take some time and actual read about the subject. You refuse to tell us what your education is. You also may want to learn about logistical fallacies. You use a lot of them. Start with this.
Equivocation - RationalWiki

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1070 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 9:59 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1073 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 3:48 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1073 of 1104 (913091)
10-11-2023 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1072 by Theodoric
10-10-2023 10:57 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
It's none of your business, as you are of low intellect and have added zero facts here.
You people make false claims, but you continue to hold them as true and ridicule everybody who does not accept these claims. That makes you a bunch of liars and hypocrites. Simple as that!
There are people here who see common ancestry as fact, just as I said. Keep denying that as much as you like, but that only proves your utter ignorance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1072 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2023 10:57 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1074 by Tangle, posted 10-11-2023 4:56 AM sensei has replied
 Message 1080 by AZPaul3, posted 10-11-2023 8:43 AM sensei has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1074 of 1104 (913093)
10-11-2023 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1073 by sensei
10-11-2023 3:48 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensai writes:
You people make false claims
For God's sake please show us these damn claims! Are they just inside your head?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1073 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 3:48 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1075 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 7:16 AM Tangle has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1075 of 1104 (913094)
10-11-2023 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1074 by Tangle
10-11-2023 4:56 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Learn to read and keep up. You are good at insulting without knowing what the heck you are talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1074 by Tangle, posted 10-11-2023 4:56 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1077 by Percy, posted 10-11-2023 8:00 AM sensei has not replied
 Message 1081 by Tangle, posted 10-11-2023 8:53 AM sensei has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22694
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1076 of 1104 (913095)
10-11-2023 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1070 by sensei
10-10-2023 9:59 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensei writes:
See reply of Paul. I wonder if you are now man enough to admit that your claim was false and that I was right.
Since you quote nothing I can only guess that you're referring to this:
Percy in Message 1068 writes:
Concerning UCA I think most in this thread consider it very likely but not a fact.
You do know what "most" means, right?
We're still waiting for you to tell us about all these scientists claiming absolute truth.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1070 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 9:59 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1078 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 8:15 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22694
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1077 of 1104 (913096)
10-11-2023 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1075 by sensei
10-11-2023 7:16 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensei writes:
Learn to read and keep up. You are good at insulting without knowing what the heck you are talking about.
You could cut the irony with a knife.
Following the Moderator Rules, I will recuse myself for two days and then switch to my moderator role for this thread.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1075 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 7:16 AM sensei has not replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1078 of 1104 (913097)
10-11-2023 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1076 by Percy
10-11-2023 7:41 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
So you decided to cowardly pretend to not know what reply I'm talking about.
AZPaul3:
He can't because, I for one, do consider common descent to be a 100% proven fact of evolution. Well, ok, as 100% as science allows, which, at this confidence level is so strong as to allow me to conclude 100% certainty because I damned well want to define it that way whether the universe allows that reality or not. The practical reality is so compelling as to not care about my logic error. Common ancestry, LUCA, is a fact, absolutely.
Do I also need to remind you of what you claimed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1076 by Percy, posted 10-11-2023 7:41 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1079 by Percy, posted 10-11-2023 8:31 AM sensei has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22694
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1079 of 1104 (913098)
10-11-2023 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1078 by sensei
10-11-2023 8:15 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
I'm currently recused and will assume the moderator role for this thread in two days.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 8:15 AM sensei has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8613
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1080 of 1104 (913099)
10-11-2023 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1073 by sensei
10-11-2023 3:48 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
There are people here who see common ancestry as fact, just as I said.
Yes, you found one! OMG you were right. Someone admits to seeing the LUCA hypothesis as fact.
I look out over the world and I see common descent. I see where the genetic data supports LUCA. I see where families grew, evolved, separated in direct line with their descendants
I see this and I say, yes, LUCA must have been a fact.
So now what? Does this minor revelation finally prove your god sits upon his throne in his heaven? Does it destroy the edifice of the modern synthesis?
Why does the fact that LUCA was a fact cause such consternation in you? Don't answer. I know. It negates the need for your god to exist to meddle in evolution. It calls your creation myth false and dumps your god in the trash bin.
So, LUCA is real and your god is fake. Over a thousand messages in this thread and nothing has changed.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1073 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 3:48 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1082 by sensei, posted 10-11-2023 8:58 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
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