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Author Topic:   Exposing the evolution theory. Part 2
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 1036 of 1104 (913050)
10-09-2023 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1032 by WookieeB
10-09-2023 5:44 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
There are so many definitions out there, and I'd like to know which one you specifically refer to here.
Compare and contrast any 3 of them. Show us these other definitions, WookieB. Do they differ significantly? Does one involve dragons? Sources, of course, will be necessary and should be extensive enough to challenge the modern synthesis.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1032 by WookieeB, posted 10-09-2023 5:44 PM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1063 by WookieeB, posted 10-10-2023 4:49 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1037 of 1104 (913051)
10-09-2023 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1034 by Granny Magda
10-09-2023 7:25 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
What claim about the scientific method are you referring to? Really, you need to be more specific, rather than asking such vague questions.
You claim my approach is broken. What approach exactly? And what evidence do you have for your claim, which facts and what arguments and what logic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1034 by Granny Magda, posted 10-09-2023 7:25 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1049 by Percy, posted 10-10-2023 11:16 AM sensei has not replied
 Message 1057 by Granny Magda, posted 10-10-2023 12:36 PM sensei has not replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1038 of 1104 (913052)
10-09-2023 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1035 by Granny Magda
10-09-2023 7:53 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
You call me illiterate, while using a straw man. Because your description of how I see things, are totally inaccurate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1035 by Granny Magda, posted 10-09-2023 7:53 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1042 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2023 9:14 AM sensei has replied
 Message 1050 by Percy, posted 10-10-2023 11:20 AM sensei has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 1039 of 1104 (913053)
10-10-2023 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 967 by sensei
10-04-2023 8:42 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensei in Message 967 writes:
Percy:
Do you have any examples of scientists making claims of absolute truth?
Every scientist who claims UCA is a fact, basically posts it as absolute truth, if you ask me. Do you agree on this or do you see it differently?
Dawkins does it, I think. Among many others.
You have been asked multiple times to provide actual references of Dawkins or any other evolutionary biologist making any claims about absolute truth, but you have completely disregarded those requests. This leads to the obvious conclusion that you just made it all up and that you have neither seen nor read any evolutionary biologists making claims about scientific conclusions being absolute truth.
If you hadn't made it up you would have shouted out the evidence and rubbed our noses in it.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 967 by sensei, posted 10-04-2023 8:42 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1040 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 4:07 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1040 of 1104 (913054)
10-10-2023 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1039 by Tanypteryx
10-10-2023 1:13 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
It's most scientist who belief evolution to be both theory and fact. The evolution theory is about evolution from a common ancestry, with UCA as most plausible, and seperate common ancestors as less likely. So yeah, most biologists see common ancestry in one version or another as fact.
How about you? Which part of evolution theory do you consider to be fact?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1039 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-10-2023 1:13 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1041 by Tangle, posted 10-10-2023 8:54 AM sensei has replied
 Message 1045 by nwr, posted 10-10-2023 10:17 AM sensei has replied
 Message 1051 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-10-2023 11:32 AM sensei has replied
 Message 1052 by Percy, posted 10-10-2023 12:06 PM sensei has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 1041 of 1104 (913055)
10-10-2023 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1040 by sensei
10-10-2023 4:07 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensai writes:
It's most scientist who belief evolution to be both theory and fact. The evolution theory is about evolution from a common ancestry, with UCA as most plausible, and seperate common ancestors as less likely. So yeah, most biologists see common ancestry in one version or another as fact.

How about you? Which part of evolution theory do you consider to be fact?
Why are you continuing with these pointless semantics? Do they have some real-life importance to you? What point are you trying to get across and if you're rejecting our answers why?
From here it just looks like you¡re stuck in a corner. We'll happily lets you out if you can give us a an indication of where you think you're going with this.
When discussing stuff casually scientists will use all sorts of language but I doubt you’ll find any that provide an unqualified answer to a specific scientific question.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1040 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 4:07 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1043 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 10:04 AM Tangle has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1042 of 1104 (913056)
10-10-2023 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1038 by sensei
10-09-2023 8:24 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Please show where he called you illiterate. Please outline the strawman he used. You say a lot of things but there is nothing to back any of it up so far.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1038 by sensei, posted 10-09-2023 8:24 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1044 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 10:06 AM Theodoric has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1043 of 1104 (913058)
10-10-2023 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1041 by Tangle
10-10-2023 8:54 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Stuck in a corner? Then tell me which part do you disagree with and why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1041 by Tangle, posted 10-10-2023 8:54 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1047 by Tangle, posted 10-10-2023 10:58 AM sensei has not replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1044 of 1104 (913059)
10-10-2023 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1042 by Theodoric
10-10-2023 9:14 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
You can use the search function yourself. I'm not your secretary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1042 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2023 9:14 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1054 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2023 12:14 PM sensei has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 1045 of 1104 (913060)
10-10-2023 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1040 by sensei
10-10-2023 4:07 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensei in Message 1040 writes:
It's most scientist who belief evolution to be both theory and fact.
And you misunderstand that.
We observe change over time. That's evolution as fact.
The theory is an attempted explanation of what we observer.
Scientists are clear about the distinction between what we observe (fact) and the theory that attempts to explain it. Yes, we use some of the same vocabulary for each. But the distinction is still quite clear -- except, perhaps, to creationists.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1040 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 4:07 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1046 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 10:33 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 1046 of 1104 (913061)
10-10-2023 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1045 by nwr
10-10-2023 10:17 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
Yet, most of you here argue as if evolution theory of common ancestry is just as much a fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1045 by nwr, posted 10-10-2023 10:17 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1053 by Percy, posted 10-10-2023 12:11 PM sensei has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 1047 of 1104 (913062)
10-10-2023 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1043 by sensei
10-10-2023 10:04 AM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensai writes:
Stuck in a corner? Then tell me which part do you disagree with and why?
I have no idea what I'm disagreeing with - I've lost the plot.
As far as I can gather you're trying to tell us that science claims absolute truths about things. But that's so obviously false I doubt you're saying that. So I'm trying to understand what it is you're saying. Perhaps it would help if you could just remind us of your position? Maybe we're not in disagreement?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1043 by sensei, posted 10-10-2023 10:04 AM sensei has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1048 of 1104 (913063)
10-10-2023 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1031 by sensei
10-09-2023 5:28 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Even the principle of tentativity is tentative. It is supported by a mountain of evidence, but our certainty about the principle can never reach 100%.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1031 by sensei, posted 10-09-2023 5:28 PM sensei has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1049 of 1104 (913064)
10-10-2023 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1037 by sensei
10-09-2023 8:21 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensei writes:
You claim my approach is broken. What approach exactly? And what evidence do you have for your claim, which facts and what arguments and what logic?
I believe Granny Magda is referring to your belief that the scientific process can arrive at 100% certainty, and that there are scientists out their declaring some things as absolute truth. We're still waiting for valid arguments for the former and evidence for the latter.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1037 by sensei, posted 10-09-2023 8:21 PM sensei has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1050 of 1104 (913065)
10-10-2023 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1038 by sensei
10-09-2023 8:24 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
sensei writes:
You call me illiterate, while using a straw man. Because your description of how I see things, are totally inaccurate.
This was your opportunity to set the record straight on how you see things, but you instead continued on your chosen path of extreme brevity, ambiguity, ignorance, unsupported and apparently baseless criticism, and insult.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1038 by sensei, posted 10-09-2023 8:24 PM sensei has not replied

  
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