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Author | Topic: New Cambrian Discoveries | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.1
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New sites for Cambrian fossils are revealing new species and details of known species. Exciting times.
Cracking the Cambrian: New fossils and sites are helping make sense of the mysterious flowering of animal life half a billion years ago. quote: quote: quote: quote: Links and Information please. Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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AdminPhat Inactive Member
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Thread copied here from the New Cambrian Discoveries thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.6
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They're still looking for that rabbit aren't they?
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.1
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They're still looking for that rabbit aren't they? Well, the ones hoping for that rabbit, are not actually doing any of the science.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.6 |
Tanypteryx writes: Well, the ones hoping for that rabbit, are not actually doing any of the science. The cool thing though is that if anyone did find a rabbit science would have to incorporate it into its thinking somehow. No doubt there would be enormous difficulties making people accept the fact of it, but if finally it was proven, it would ultimately be accepted and the theory would change.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.1
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The cool thing though is that if anyone did find a rabbit science would have to incorporate it into its thinking somehow. Yep. It would also spur a flurry of research trying to understand how the rabbit managed to evolve in a world without any land plants or any obvious ancestors. What interests me is that organisms completely new to science are being discovered in these deposits and that even in these early times of complex life there were already complex interconnected ecosystems.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2497 Joined: |
quote: It seems that there might already be work on some of these issues. A scientist had a big (1114 pages?) work published, but it seems he died just before. Is this type of thing going to be seen as "pseudo science"? (The cover seems to have Velikovsky and Darwin pictured side by side) Here is the blurb.
quote: I will surely read this work some time (as the dead author was amazingly good at using primary scientific sources and journals) but does this sound screwed up at first glance? How screwed up?
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.1
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It seems that there might already be work on some of these issues. A scientist had a big (1114 pages?) work published, but it seems he died just before. Is this type of thing going to be seen as "pseudo science"? This is a thread in the Links and Information Forum", so not really the place for discussion about what seems to me to be unrelated except for the mention of "Cambrian." I tend to dismiss books and articles that mention "Velikovskian global cataclysms" since reading some of Velikovsky's books back in maybe the '70s. I suspect it will indeed be seen as pseudo science. That's how I see it anyway. If you want to discuss this I suggest you propose a new topic.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2497 Joined: |
quote: It is very much on topic, if you focus on the comments about a (possible archaeological scenario) "rabbit"-like creature (perhaps a remnant from some isolated island that existed only for a few million years) in the Cambrian (and with the need for a modified theory of evolution to explain it). The possibility of non-DNA genetic "information" being present, but not apparant (according to current understanding of genetics), could explain how the "Rolly Polly" crustacean has some sort of genetic expression that makes it nearly identical to a few millipedes (including the rolling ball feature). Woodlouse - Wikipedia Pill millipede - Wikipedia Consider is the recapitulational stages of embryology and then the issue of metamorphosis. But, first Velikovsky: The "Velikovsky" part seems to be only loosely related. (All Velikovsky proposed, as far as I have read, is that "Numerous catastrophes or bursts of effective radiation must have taken place in the geo-logical past in order to change so radically the living forms on earth" which would be consistent with "The fact that the geological record shows a sudden emergence of many new forms at the beginning of each geological age" and would solve the problem that comes from "The fact that in many cases the intermediary links between present-day species are missing, as well as those between various species of the geological record, a vexing problem") Velikovsky simply suggested rapid mutational change in the DNA. End Velikovsky. The theory of Ginenthal goes beyond the standard issue of mutations as they WERE (and perhaps are) commonly understood. Ginenthal seems to be saying that there was alot of non-DNA type of genetic material that ALREADY had lots of "information". Back to embryology. Franoise Jacob and Jacques Monad found "control genes" to be an important issue to understand when they worked on bacteria. They were quoted:
quote: Consider the Nobel laureate, Barbara McClintock. Evelyn Fox Keller, inA Feeling for the Organism(10th Anniversary Edition),The Life and Work of Barbara McClintock(NY 1983), said that McClintock was responsible for "turning biology into a bona fide field of science a science like physics" On page 177, Keller wrote:
quote: quote: Comfort, p. 152, says McClintock is "said to have told friends not to dismiss Velikovsky so quickly that there might be a grain of truth in his work".
quote: quote: One has to wonder if there is some sort of genetic expression and control that isn't understood, and which could mask lots of potential morphological and anatomical changes (possibly happening in a single generation), which were already , in some way, present in the genetic code. Franoise Jacob and Jacques Monad said the "fundamental problem with chemical physiology and embryology to understand why tissue cells do not all express, all the time, the potentialities inherent in their genome". Embryology shows the greatly different morphological expressions present in the entire genetic load. Could a rabbit like creature have once lived on an isolated island in the Cambrian times? With hair? (It , of course, would not be a mammal.) Genetic quiescence means what? McClintock said: "I believe there is little reason to question the presence of innate systems that are able to restructure the genome. It is now necessary to learn of these systems and determine why many of them are quiescent and remains so over very long periods of time only to be triggered into action by forms of stress." "Quiescent" features? Explain what that means. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.1 |
Are you loaded?
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2497 Joined: |
You can keep on making jokes, but the biggest joke is the assumption, by posters in this thread, that there is some large Cambrian land-strata field that has been looked at and dug excavated.
Most (almost all) of the land has been crushed by plate techtonics. Even the bulk of the Cambrian ocean strata has been crushed and lost. I made a minor post (without much commentary to clarify) about Cambrian genetic controls possibly allowing for the creation of a morphological rabbit-like creature possible. You then complained that it was off topic. (Posters here were saying that land "plants" of any sort weren't present ANYWHERE, and other arguments that can only be described as an "argument from absence of evidence") Don't make fun of creationists when they ask about missing links, if the Cambrian situation is going to be treated, by posters here, like everything has been found that ever existed. It isn't even close to true.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.1
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You can keep on making jokes, but the biggest joke is the assumption, by posters in this thread, that there is some large Cambrian land-strata field that has been looked at and dug excavated. Well, I think a larger and mistaken assumption is you assuming that we are assuming that. We are well aware that exposed strata deposited in many periods is rare.
I made a minor post (without much commentary to clarify) about Cambrian genetic controls possibly allowing for the creation of a morphological rabbit-like creature possible. You then complained that it was off topic. I figured it was going to get complicated and suggested starting a new topic.
(Posters here were saying that land "plants" of any sort weren't present ANYWHERE, and other arguments that can only be described as an "argument from absence of evidence") I said there were no land plants, and I based that on fossil evidence of the emergence of vascular plants at the beginning of the Silurian Period.
Don't make fun of creationists when they ask about missing links, if the Cambrian situation is going to be treated, by posters here, like everything has been found that ever existed. It isn't even close to true. Perhaps you missed the part where I posted a link to an article about all the new fossils being discovered Message 1?Tanypteryx writes: New sites for Cambrian fossils are revealing new species and details of known species. Exciting times.
Cracking the Cambrian: New fossils and sites are helping make sense of the mysterious flowering of animal life half a billion years ago. You can keep on making jokes I wasn't joking. You jumped around semi-coherently in Message 9 in way that reminded me of people who are high.
The possibility of non-DNA genetic "information" being present, but not apparant (according to current understanding of genetics), could explain how the "Rolly Polly" crustacean has some sort of genetic expression that makes it nearly identical to a few millipedes (including the rolling ball feature). Consider is the recapitulational stages of embryology and then the issue of metamorphosis.
What the hell does this even mean?
But, first Velikovsky: The "Velikovsky" part seems to be only loosely related. (All Velikovsky proposed, as far as I have read, is that "Numerous catastrophes or bursts of effective radiation must have taken place in the geo-logical past in order to change so radically the living forms on earth" which would be consistent with "The fact that the geological record shows a sudden emergence of many new forms at the beginning of each geological age" and would solve the problem that comes from "The fact that in many cases the intermediary links between present-day species are missing, as well as those between various species of the geological record, a vexing problem") The geological record shows rapid evolution of new species from the survivors after major extinction events.
"The fact that in many cases the intermediary links between present-day species are missing, as well as those between various species of the geological record, a vexing problem" What is a vexing problem is why should there be intermediary links between present-day species? Are you saying that there are no transitional fossils? Or are you saying that there should be some kind of links between living species and that there should be some different link between fossil species?
The theory of Ginenthal goes beyond the standard issue of mutations as they WERE (and perhaps are) commonly understood. Ginenthal seems to be saying that there was alot of non-DNA type of genetic material that ALREADY had lots of "information". Back to embryology. Franoise Jacob and Jacques Monad found "control genes" to be an important issue to understand when they worked on bacteria. And you continue bouncing around until:
Could a rabbit like creature have once lived on an isolated island in the Cambrian times? With hair? (It , of course, would not be a mammal.) Genetic quiescence means what? McClintock said: "I believe there is little reason to question the presence of innate systems that are able to restructure the genome. It is now necessary to learn of these systems and determine why many of them are quiescent and remains so over very long periods of time only to be triggered into action by forms of stress." "Quiescent" features? Explain what that means. That's why I asked if you are high. Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2497 Joined: |
My "main beef(s)" will narrow this discussion (which you said you didn't want to have anyway).
Tanypteryx said:
quote: I was talking about cambrian land-strata, and emphasis on the LAND part. google search: cambriaN land-strata brings up some hits. here is just one
quote: As for my LAND plant beef, there are molecular level studies avaliable in the literature. see Just a moment...
quote: Much later in article
quote: Here is wikipedia. Embryophyte - Wikipedia I reject the idea that earlier periods lacked many of the things the incomplete fossil record might presently indicate. There could have been lots of evolutionary dead-end LAND islands in Cambrian times. And intelligent life, as well as plants themselves, could have colonized the islands. There could have been some interesting islands (of life) before extinctions.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.1
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I reject the idea that earlier periods lacked many of the things the incomplete fossil record might presently indicate. ok.
There could have been lots of evolutionary dead-end LAND islands in Cambrian times. ok.
And intelligent life, as well as plants themselves, could have colonized the islands. Maybe even intelligent plants.
There could have been some interesting islands (of life) before extinctions. ok. Edited by Tanypteryx, : spellingWhat if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.6 |
Maybe even intelligent plants.
Edited by Tanypteryx, 12-02-2018 11:28 AM: spelling You forget how to spell "ok"?
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