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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 819 of 1385 (852148)
05-07-2019 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 818 by dwise1
05-07-2019 4:11 PM


Re: Restating the question
Back to the two sequences for keratin (finger-nail material), chimp and human, which only differ by one amino acid in locus 52, glycine (chimp) versus alanine (human). The codon for glycine is GG(GACU) -- that means that the first two bases are specified while the third base can be any of the four possible. The codon for alanine is GC(GACU). That means that the only difference between chimp and human keratin is one single base. That is about as minimal and simple a mutation possible. So for that one feature, finger nails, that Faith thought was so insurmountable a change, all it actually took was one single simple base substitution.
Unfortunately I think I've confused you a bit here. I only showed 60 amino acids - since I was just looking for the first difference in the human and chimp sequences to use to make my point. The full protein sequence is about ten times as long, so I assume this is not the only difference (I didn't check).
Also, there is more than one type of keratin. The sequence we're looking at is just keratin-5, which is one of 54 keratins involved in making a human body. To make matters worse, in double checking just now I think I may have picked a keratin which is not even involved in nails.
There's probably more than one single base change needed to make a chimp and human nail have the same chemical composition - sorry for confusion!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 818 by dwise1, posted 05-07-2019 4:11 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 1107 of 1385 (853623)
05-29-2019 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1081 by Dredge
05-28-2019 12:28 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Ernst Mayr suggested an eminently more sensible definition - macroevolution occurs only at the level of genus or even higher (an idea he may have stolen from yours truly, btw).
That seems somewhat unlikely since, as I pointed out earlier, it's a meaningless definition. Principally for the reason that there's no agreed on definition of 'genus'. How many organisms are included within a genus is a matter of fashion, aesthetics and what seems most convenient for taxonomists. As an example, titi monkeys have been for a long time been classified as one genus, Callicebus. Recently, though there has been a push by some taxonomists to recognise three genera of titis, Callicebus, Cheracebus, and Plecturocebus. The long discussion of why can be read here for free if you really want to, but it can be briefly summarised thus: 'There are loads of species of titi monkey, and we can split them into three clear groups on genetic, morphological and ecological grounds. We want these groups to be different genera.'
By your genius-level definition, then, would recognising the common ancestry of titis be macroevolution now? Was it a few years ago, before anyone recognised different genera? What's the point of such a meaningless and arbitrary definition, and how can it help if we're not even in agreement on whether evolution is a thing.
I went and dug out some Mayr to read what he actually said. From his 1942 book, Systematics And The Origin Of Species:
quote:
Under the term microevolution such evolutionary processes are understood as occur within short spaces of time and in lower systematic categories, in general within the species (hence also, intraspecific evolution). By the term macroevlution we understand the development of major evolutionary trends, the origin of higher categories, the development of new organic systems - in short, evolutionary processes that require long periods of time and concern the higher systematic categories (supra-specific evolution). There is only a difference of degree, not one of kind, between the two classes of phenomena. They gradually merge into each other and it is only for practical reasons that they are kept separate.
Seems to me that he saw the term, much like genus, as having an imprecise definition that varies according to convenience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1081 by Dredge, posted 05-28-2019 12:28 AM Dredge has replied

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