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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 475 of 1385 (850549)
04-10-2019 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 449 by Dredge
04-09-2019 12:52 AM


Dredge writes:
Stile writes:
Without the concept of UCA - their would be no point in creating medicine the way we do it.
Since we do have the concept of UCA - it helps guide the creation of new medicines in helpful directions.
Unsurprisingly, you make this claim without any evidence to back it up.
Perhaps you missed it.
Here it is again: "medicine."
Why is accepting that all life on earth shares a common ancestor essential for guiding the creation of new medicines or for any practical application of medical science?
Because "the creation of new medicines or any practical application of medical science" is guided by accepting that all life on earth shares a common ancestor.
That is, if one did not accept that all life on earth shares a common ancestor - it wouldn't make any sense to accept that all life is connected, and that life evolves from previous life. Such ideas are fundamentally connected.
You seem to be conflating the principle (fact) of common descent with the theory of (L)UCA.
I'm not conflating them. They are two different ideas.
I am showing you how they are also inextricably linked.
Although they are different, they are also linked in a way where it doesn't make any sense to accept common decent and reject UCA. What would be the reason to do so?
Just like "a transistor" is a different idea than "an electronic device."
However, both are inextricably linked.
Although they are different, they are also linked in a way where it doesn't make any sense to accept electronic devices and reject transistors. What would be the reason to do so?
Are you saying YEC scientists couldn't develop drugs and vaccines? If so, why not?
I'm saying that if they were any good at it, in the sense of being able to keep up and come out with new ones as required - they would use the ideas of common descent and UCA. If they didn't (if anyone didn't) - then they wouldn't be any good at it - they would be known for being "useless" in developing drugs and vaccines.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2019 12:52 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2019 3:29 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 478 of 1385 (850554)
04-10-2019 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 459 by Dredge
04-10-2019 2:25 AM


Dredge writes:
No, it's not unreasonable or silly - if you google "practical uses for the theory of evolution", the first result is likely to be a Wikipedia article which claims to provide "practical applications" of "the theory of evolution".
Uh - yeah.
It's actually the one I keep linking to you: "medicine."
And, again, if you don't believe this wiki - you're not going to believe a Scientific paper.
Just as if you don't believe a wiki telling you that transistors are used in electronic devices - you're not going to believe a Scientific paper.
Which is why providing a scientific paper to you isn't worth my time - it's unreasonable and silly for you to request it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by Dredge, posted 04-10-2019 2:25 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 480 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:12 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 483 of 1385 (850572)
04-10-2019 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Faith
04-10-2019 2:41 PM


The conversion in your mind must be fascinating.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:41 PM Faith has not replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 555 of 1385 (851286)
04-22-2019 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 515 by Dredge
04-19-2019 3:29 AM


Dredge writes:
More nonsense. Your logic fails - it's not necessary to accept that "all life is connected" in order to accept that "life evolves from previous life". For example, one can breed a sheep dog from a wolf without accepting that all life shares a common ancestor (or even being aware of such a concept).
Let me get this straight.
You're saying you "don't have to accept that life comes from a common ancestor" by breeding a sheep dog from a wolf - proving that the sheep dog has a wolf as a common ancestor?
Sure, buddy - whatever you say.
Keep plugging those ears and screaming you don't believe.
No, really - it's working. Keep it up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2019 3:29 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 584 by Dredge, posted 04-28-2019 2:34 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(5)
Message 562 of 1385 (851408)
04-24-2019 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 557 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:34 AM


Dredge writes:
but the OP asks if the ToCD offers any practical use to applied science - so far none have come to light.
Fifth time: "medicine."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 557 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:34 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 586 by Dredge, posted 04-28-2019 2:42 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 601 of 1385 (851590)
04-29-2019 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 584 by Dredge
04-28-2019 2:34 AM


Dredge writes:
I will reiterate: To say, "all life is connected", is to say that all life shares a common ancestor - a belief that has no practical use in applied science.
Okay, but I don't see how this correct the silliness of your example.
To rephrase my original:
quote:
Let me get this straight. You're saying you "don't have to accept that all life is connected" by breeding a sheep dog from a wolf - proving that the sheep dog and a wolf are life that is connected?
But, please, keep trying. It's very entertaining.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 584 by Dredge, posted 04-28-2019 2:34 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 602 of 1385 (851591)
04-29-2019 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 586 by Dredge
04-28-2019 2:42 AM


Dredge writes:
You keep repeating this claim, but hitherto have failed to explain how the theory of common descent (ie, the theory that all life on earth shares a common ancestor) has provided a practical use in medical science.
That's okay, we can continue to go over it again.
It shows everyone how empty your arguments are.
That you have no substance, and can only regurgitate Points Refuted A Thousand Times:
From Message 216:
There were two of them in the link you just quoted. One of the big, huge ones, and one of the small, specific ones:
quote:
Medicine
Schematic representation of how antibiotic resistance evolves via natural selection. The top section represents a population of bacteria before exposure to an antibiotic. The middle section shows the population directly after exposure, the phase in which selection took place. The last section shows the distribution of resistance in a new generation of bacteria. The legend indicates the resistance levels of individuals.
Antibiotic resistance can be a result of point mutations in the pathogen genome at a rate of about 1 in 108 per chromosomal replication. The antibiotic action against the pathogen can be seen as an environmental pressure; those bacteria which have a mutation allowing them to survive will live on to reproduce. They will then pass this trait to their offspring, which will result in a fully resistant colony.
Understanding the changes that have occurred during organism's evolution can reveal the genes needed to construct parts of the body, genes which may be involved in human genetic disorders.[6] For example, the Mexican tetra is an albino cavefish that lost its eyesight during evolution. Breeding together different populations of this blind fish produced some offspring with functional eyes, since different mutations had occurred in the isolated populations that had evolved in different caves.[7] This helped identify genes required for vision and pigmentation, such as crystallins and the melanocortin 1 receptor.[8] Similarly, comparing the genome of the Antarctic icefish, which lacks red blood cells, to close relatives such as the Antarctic rockcod revealed genes needed to make these blood cells.[9]
It must be difficult to talk, with all those feet in your mouth.
Are there any more of my previous messages you'd like me to post again? Cut and paste is easy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by Dredge, posted 04-28-2019 2:42 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 738 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2019 7:44 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(3)
Message 610 of 1385 (851666)
04-30-2019 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 609 by Tanypteryx
04-30-2019 12:21 PM


Tanypteryx writes:
What are you, 12?
No need to discuss his IQ.
He's trying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 609 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-30-2019 12:21 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 677 by Dredge, posted 05-03-2019 3:38 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 760 of 1385 (852046)
05-06-2019 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 738 by Dredge
05-05-2019 7:44 PM


Dredge writes:
Explain why is necessary to accept that all life shares a common ancestor in order to understand antibiotic resistance and the evolution of blind fish?
As before, you won't supply such an explanation - because you can't.
I thought you were asking about UCA in applied biology?
What part of applied biology involves evolving blind fish?
So - of course I won't answer this question, this question has nothing to do with what we're talking about (UCA and applied biology.)
Unless you're about to share the blind-fish-creation studies in applied biology?
However, if you want to get back to the point... about UCA in applied biology... you can review my answers again at any time:
quote:
Message 298
Except, of course, that if the understanding of antibiotic resistance was not the way it is - then the concept of UCA would be incorrect - there would be no evidence supporting it. Which, to rational people, implies that such ideas, theories and practical applications are inherently linked and should not be separated in attempts to make a silly fool of yourself. But sure, buddy - you do you.
Message 357
It's more linked in the other direction:
If anyone could show there is no such thing as evolving from a common ancestor... all our ideas on how to apply biology would be turned on it's head.
Message 447
Without the concept of UCA - their would be no point in creating medicine the way we do it.
Since we do have the concept of UCA - it helps guide the creation of new medicines in helpful directions.
That is, if UCA was not applicable - those creating medicine would be using some other idea as a guide, or we would not have 'new medicine' at all.
Dredge writes:
There exist professors of biology who are YECs - according to you, these professors can't understand how antibiotic resistance works or how blind fish evolve!
Again, what part of evolving blind fish is in applied biology? Is there an example of applied biology you'd like to inform us about?
According to me, the applied biology for using UCA is medicine.
Therefore - according to me, any YECs (or any non-YECs, even) developing medicine without the idea of UCA behind them - wouldn't be any good at it - they would be known for being "useless" in developing drugs and vaccines.
Proof: You are unable to identify a single YEC who doesn't have the idea of UCA incorporated in their research who is not "useless" in developing drugs and vaccines.
But keep trying, you're still funny.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 738 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2019 7:44 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 910 by Dredge, posted 05-09-2019 7:07 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(3)
Message 930 of 1385 (852412)
05-10-2019 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 910 by Dredge
05-09-2019 7:07 PM


Dredge writes:
Explain why it's necessary to accept that all life on earth shares a common ancestor in order to understand antibiotic resistance.
Okay. I will copy and paste my answer for you again:
quote:
Message 298
Except, of course, that if the understanding of antibiotic resistance was not the way it is - then the concept of UCA would be incorrect - there would be no evidence supporting it. Which, to rational people, implies that such ideas, theories and practical applications are inherently linked and should not be separated in attempts to make a silly fool of yourself. But sure, buddy - you do you.
Message 357
It's more linked in the other direction:
If anyone could show there is no such thing as evolving from a common ancestor... all our ideas on how to apply biology would be turned on it's head.
Message 447
Without the concept of UCA - their would be no point in creating medicine antibiotic resistance the way we do it.
Since we do have the concept of UCA - it helps guide the creation of new medicines antibiotic resistances in helpful directions.
That is, if UCA was not applicable - those creating medicine would be using some other idea as a guide, or we would not have 'new medicine antibiotic resistance' at all.
I hope you are able to find it this time.
Dredge writes:
It's easy to make a stupid, baseless claim; it's not so easy to back it up with a sane explanation or evidence . but have a go.
Sane explanation and evidence, again:
quote:
Medicine
Schematic representation of how antibiotic resistance evolves via natural selection. The top section represents a population of bacteria before exposure to an antibiotic. The middle section shows the population directly after exposure, the phase in which selection took place. The last section shows the distribution of resistance in a new generation of bacteria. The legend indicates the resistance levels of individuals.
Antibiotic resistance can be a result of point mutations in the pathogen genome at a rate of about 1 in 108 per chromosomal replication. The antibiotic action against the pathogen can be seen as an environmental pressure; those bacteria which have a mutation allowing them to survive will live on to reproduce. They will then pass this trait to their offspring, which will result in a fully resistant colony.
Understanding the changes that have occurred during organism's evolution can reveal the genes needed to construct parts of the body, genes which may be involved in human genetic disorders.[6] For example, the Mexican tetra is an albino cavefish that lost its eyesight during evolution. Breeding together different populations of this blind fish produced some offspring with functional eyes, since different mutations had occurred in the isolated populations that had evolved in different caves.[7] This helped identify genes required for vision and pigmentation, such as crystallins and the melanocortin 1 receptor.[8] Similarly, comparing the genome of the Antarctic icefish, which lacks red blood cells, to close relatives such as the Antarctic rockcod revealed genes needed to make these blood cells.[9]
Proof, again:
quote:
Proof: You are unable to identify a single YEC who doesn't have the idea of UCA incorporated in their research who is not "useless" in developing drugs and vaccines (medicine and/or antibiotic resistance.)
Why do you think asking the same questions over and over should be given different answers?
I will explicitly tell you now: As long as you ask the same question over and over, I only have to answer it in the same way over and over. Cut and pasting is easy.
Using slightly different words to ask the exact same question doesn't change anything.
Have fun!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 910 by Dredge, posted 05-09-2019 7:07 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 931 by edge, posted 05-10-2019 10:38 AM Stile has replied
 Message 945 by Dredge, posted 05-11-2019 7:10 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied
 Message 947 by Dredge, posted 05-11-2019 7:24 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied
 Message 948 by Dredge, posted 05-11-2019 7:29 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied
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Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 932 of 1385 (852417)
05-10-2019 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 931 by edge
05-10-2019 10:38 AM


edge writes:
If you don't accept the UCA theory, then you might accept something else like like some form of voodoo.
A significant part of it, yes.
I'm also thinking along the lines of focusing imagination in attempts to develop new forms of medicine.
It's not like the guy looking for new medicine just dumps random chemicals in a vial, drinks it, and says "Nope - still got mono!"
Brute force method, go!
No. They look at the issue, they look at what's worked before (if anything) then they make an educated guess (which will always include the idea that life-developed-from-previous-life-back-and-back-and-back-into-history on some level) and they try that.
Such things lead to new medicines that work.
Other methods (voodoo, brute force as-described-above...) are laughed out of serious trials.
Sure - they might work.
But - they don't.
It's like looking for oil.
Sure - you can imagine a world-wide-flood and God hiding oil deposits and young-earth geology and possibly find oil.
But those who try such methods - don't find oil.
Who finds oil?
Those who focus on the ideas that work - geology based on ideas that can all connect back to 'debris settles on previous debris' to some degree or another.
It may not be part of the checklist on "how to find oil" - but that checklist wouldn't be what it is without that driving, originating principle.
Applied biology in medicine may not have "consider UCA theory" as part of it's checklist - but that checklist wouldn't be what it is without that driving, originating principle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 931 by edge, posted 05-10-2019 10:38 AM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1002 by Dredge, posted 05-13-2019 9:13 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 294 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 1134 of 1385 (853776)
05-31-2019 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1133 by JonF
05-31-2019 3:45 PM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
JonF writes:
There's an answer response to every question, and yet there's no answers.
Fixed it.
Verification of the conman confirmed.
Snake oil! Snake oil, I say!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1133 by JonF, posted 05-31-2019 3:45 PM JonF has not replied

  
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