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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 174 of 1385 (849733)
03-20-2019 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by AZPaul3
03-17-2019 9:06 AM


Re: Name one.
AZPaul3 writes:
Typical creationist BS.
The point here Drudge, is that your claim is not worth debating. You are a troll ignorant of the science and the particulars of the issues. Your only purpose here is to insult evolution in a vain attempt to emotionally shore-up your errant beliefs in religious majik.
You fail, miserably, in intellect, knowledge, logic and all the other attributes necessary to debate questions with thinking human beings. You are desperate to debunk the tenets of evolution since they destroy your precious god delusions and that scares the hell out of you.
Interesting. It actually scares the hell into you which is why you feel so desperate.
Think about it. You have before you a proven hell-free existence just by embracing reality. You don't really need your gods after all.
It's got nothing to do with "Typicial creationist BS". I simply asked you to provide an example of a practical use for evolutionary theory, but you repllied with a completely irrelevant, anti-theist rant. In other words, you've got nothing. Therefore you would agree with me that evolutionary theory has provided no practical uses at all in applied science ... no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2019 9:06 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by AZPaul3, posted 03-20-2019 3:29 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 210 by Taq, posted 03-21-2019 5:28 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 175 of 1385 (849734)
03-20-2019 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by ringo
03-19-2019 11:49 AM


ringo writes:
You're being dishonest. You've moved the goalposts from UCA to evolutionary theory.
It seems you are wrong on two counts:
1. Where did I say I'm dropping the concept of UCA from the discussion?
2. The concept of UCA implies evolutionary theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by ringo, posted 03-19-2019 11:49 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by ringo, posted 03-20-2019 12:33 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 176 of 1385 (849735)
03-20-2019 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by Stile
03-19-2019 8:26 AM


Stile writes:
I can't? What... like medicine?
Pray tell ... how has evolutionary theory proven useful in medicine? Please provide a specific example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Stile, posted 03-19-2019 8:26 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Stile, posted 03-22-2019 11:30 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 177 of 1385 (849736)
03-20-2019 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by edge
03-17-2019 10:51 AM


edge writes:
Okay, so we can just do away with basic biological science.
1. Straw man.
2. When a theoretical biologist comes up with something important to say (as opposed to useless pseudo-scientific stories), wake me up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by edge, posted 03-17-2019 10:51 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by edge, posted 03-20-2019 7:54 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 178 of 1385 (849737)
03-20-2019 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by edge
03-17-2019 10:58 AM


Re: Name one.
edge writes:
Interesting. Then who wrote this:
A biologist who doesn't work in the field of applied biology isn't worth talking to.
... if not you?
What?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by edge, posted 03-17-2019 10:58 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by edge, posted 03-20-2019 7:55 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 179 of 1385 (849738)
03-20-2019 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by edge
03-17-2019 11:14 AM


Re: Name one.
edge writes:
The argument here is an intellectually vacant exercise unless one just wants to stir the pot. Suggesting that a theory does not do something it was never intended to do is just a form of trolling, not to be taken seriously.
I'm simply asking if anyone can give me an example of a practical use for evolutionary theory. It looks like you've got nothing to offer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by edge, posted 03-17-2019 11:14 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by edge, posted 03-20-2019 7:57 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 180 of 1385 (849739)
03-20-2019 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by ringo
03-17-2019 2:13 PM


ringo writes:
I presume by looking at how climate change may have affected evolution in the past.
But this is a classic case of goalpost-shifting. You asked for examples of uses for the UCA. There's an example. Now you're demanding that I justify the usefulness of the example? As I said earlier in the thread, it's up to scientists to decide what's useful to them.
How has "looking at how climate change may have affected evolution in the past" provided a practical use today? You made the claim, now you need to back it up with supporting evidence - to wit: a specific example.
Then you're shooting yourself in the foot. If they use it, it's useful.
You're really getting desperate now. You're implying that I said ALL evolutionary biology is useful, which is not what I said at all.
evolutionary biology = biology + evolutionary theory.
The "biology" part is useful; the "evolutionary theory" part is useless.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by ringo, posted 03-17-2019 2:13 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by ringo, posted 03-20-2019 12:42 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 181 of 1385 (849740)
03-20-2019 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by ringo
03-17-2019 2:24 PM


Re: Don't creationists have a universal common ancestor too?
ringo writes:
The topic is "practical use", not "depend on".
More desperation ... and sorry, you're wrong. It's the same thing. If any the practical uses mentioned in the post 104 "depend on" the concept of UCA, then those uses are a practical use for the concept of UCA. Come on, it ain't rocket science.
Unfortunately for the poster involved (LNA), there is no connection between the practical uses he mentioned and the concept of UCA.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by ringo, posted 03-17-2019 2:24 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by ringo, posted 03-20-2019 12:48 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 182 of 1385 (849741)
03-20-2019 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Tanypteryx
03-17-2019 2:30 PM


Tanypteryx writes:
I never said I used the concept of UCA in my work.
In that case, what was the point of you telling me this (from #131)?:
"You may not like it and you may not believe it but we are working out the evolutionary history and relatedness of many groups of insects. We are figuring out recent common ancestors and working our way back. We talk about evolution continuously and it allows us to start making predictions about different possible management strategies. Knowing what evolutionary processes and mechanisms have been important in a species history gives us valuable clues to possible parisitoid controls we could employ."
there is a distinct shortage of YEC biologists.
Did you know that there exist professors of biology who are YECs? So much for the importance of evolutionary theory in biology!
The observable facts and principles of biology are the Theory of Evolution.
W..Wh..What? You're a professional biologist and you think the theory of evolution is no more than a collection of observable facts and principles? Wow.
Look, this is how it works: Scientists took certain observable facts and principles of biology and formed the theory of evolution based on them. So obviously, ToE is more than just a collection of observable facts and principles.
You have been repeatedly told that the observable facts and principles of biology is the Theory of Evolution and none of it depends on UCA.
1. As explained above, the observable facts and principles of biology are not the theory of evolution, but only part of it.
2. I'm curious - what is your definition of "the theory of evolution"?
3. So which evolutionary theory have you found a practical use for in your work?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-17-2019 2:30 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-20-2019 12:30 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 184 of 1385 (849743)
03-20-2019 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Tanypteryx
03-17-2019 2:30 PM


I have never thought UCA was a "unifying concept" or a fact or essential scientific information
Really? Haven't you ever heard rhis: "Evolution is the unifying theory of biology"! Where have you been?
or a fact or essential scientific information
So most biologist believe biology can do without the theory of evolution? Ya coulda fooled me! LIttle do they know that ToE is just a useless story and that biologists really can do without it.
Biologists haven't been brainwashed by ToE ... that's so funny!
nd I did not say anything about UCA or claim any value
Okay, so when you said "Someone sees value in what we are learning", you were referring to discoveries in genetics? Golly gee, no kidding?
Tanypteryx writes:
Rare is the creationist who realizes that this is creationist bullshit
It is really? In that case, please explain which observable fact or principle of biology would not exist without the theory of evolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-17-2019 2:30 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 186 of 1385 (849745)
03-20-2019 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Tanypteryx
03-17-2019 2:41 PM


Tanypteryx writes:
Well, one benefit is it sure makes you insecure.
Nice try, but no cigar - evolution doesn't rule out the existence of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-17-2019 2:41 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by dwise1, posted 03-20-2019 11:27 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 190 by Tangle, posted 03-20-2019 11:38 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 197 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-20-2019 1:14 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 187 of 1385 (849746)
03-20-2019 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Tangle
03-18-2019 3:49 AM


Fascinating, but what does this have to do with the thread?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 188 of 1385 (849747)
03-20-2019 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by AZPaul3
03-20-2019 3:29 AM


Re: Name one.
Deary, deary me ... YET ANOTHER God-phobic, mouth-foaming rant ... after which I think I can safely assume that you can't provide an example of a practical use for evolutionary theory. Furthermore, it sounds like this fact is a bitter pill for you to swallow.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by AZPaul3, posted 03-20-2019 3:29 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by NosyNed, posted 03-20-2019 12:22 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 202 by AZPaul3, posted 03-20-2019 9:19 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 203 of 1385 (849787)
03-21-2019 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Tangle
03-20-2019 3:08 AM


Tangle writes:
I see, so all this huffing and puffing about UCA is utterly irrelevant as the actual problem you have is your inability to accept the established scientific theory that predicts it (or something like it).
Let me guess, it contradicts your religious beliefs?
Evolution doesn't contradict the existence of God. I doubt if ToE reflects reality as, for starters, it does a very poor job of explaining the many gaps, distinct lack of transitiionals and sudden appearances of fully-formed organisms that are evident in the fossil record.
it need have no practical value at all to be never-the-less true.
I agree.
Knowledge has no obligation to be practiical.
But knowledge is obliged to be demonstrably factual. Therefore a mere theory is not knowledge, as scientific theories come and go, as you well know.
The fossil record is knowledge, but the theory of evolution that attempts to explain the fossil record is not knowledge.
And a belief, no matter how strongly held, is not necessarily knowledge. You may be 110% convinced that all life on earth evolved from UCA, but that doesn't qualify it as knowledge, as no one can demonstrate that it is the truth.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Tangle, posted 03-20-2019 3:08 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Tangle, posted 03-21-2019 3:50 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 208 by edge, posted 03-21-2019 11:05 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 217 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-22-2019 1:24 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 205 of 1385 (849790)
03-21-2019 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Tangle
03-20-2019 3:08 AM


Tangle writes:
As it happens a 5 second google and google scholar search produces thousands of results for practical applications for the theory of evolution. Here's the first that popped up ....
Abstract
Evolutionary principles are now routinely incorporated into medicine and agriculture. Examples include the design of treatments that slow the evolution of resistance by weeds, pests, and pathogens, and the design of breeding programs that maximize crop yield or quality.
Evolutionary principles are also increasingly incorporated into conservation biology, natural resource management, and environmental science. Examples include the protection of small and isolated populations from inbreeding depression, the identification of key traits involved in adaptation to climate change, the design of harvesting regimes that minimize unwanted life-history evolution, and the setting of conservation priorities based on populations, species, or communities that harbor the greatest evolutionary diversity and potential.
The adoption of evolutionary principles has proceeded somewhat independently in these different fields, even though the underlying fundamental concepts are the same. We explore these fundamental concepts under four main themes: variation, selection, connectivity, and eco-evolutionary dynamics. Within each theme, we present several key evolutionary principles and illustrate their use in addressing applied problems.
Er, no ... you're wrong - a google search does not produce "thousands of results for practical applications for the theory of evolution." In fact, the number is ZERO. Take the quotes you supplied, for example: NONE of them say they are "practical uses for the theory of evolution" - if you read the text they are referred to as practical uses for "EVOLUTIONARY PRINCIPLES".
But like any good brainwashed evolutionist, you probably think "evolutionary principles" and "evolutionary theory" are the same thing. In which case you'd be wrong again, because if you opened your eyes a little and thought about it a little deeper you'd realize that any practically useful "evolutionary principle" exists REGARDLESS of the theory of evolution.
For example, consider the following two "evolutionary principles" that have proven useful in applied biology:
1.. Natural selection.
2. Benefical mutations are passed from parent to offspring, which may lead to changes in gene frequency within a population.
These two principles describe observable, demonstrable, repeatable facts and therefore the theory of evolution (ie, Darwin's concept of UCA) has contributed absolutely nothing to their existence. These two principles (ie, facts) exist and hold true for everyone - regardless of whether they accept the theory of evolution or not. They hold true and exist even for YECs. These principles would exist if no one had ever heard of the theory of evolution.
The moral of the story is, whenever you are reading scientific literature and come across any "evolutionary principle" that has proven useful in applied science, remember that it is simply a principle of biology, and doesn't equate to or owe its existence to "evolutionary theory".
These principles of biology have been misleadingly and ubiquitously dubbed "evolutionary principles" by the scientific community because it believes the fantasy that "evolution is the unifying theory of all biology". These deluded Darwinist fanatics actually believe that the principles of biological science need the theory of evolution!
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Tangle, posted 03-20-2019 3:08 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Tangle, posted 03-21-2019 4:50 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 207 by edge, posted 03-21-2019 10:49 AM Dredge has replied

  
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