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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Bible Inerrancy stands against all objections | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
It is not evident to me because you yourself do not believe it. All that you can do is report what the book says. Which is unimpressive. Look at my situation. I am nearly 60 years old. Diabetic. Just had eye surgery, and fight to maintain health. I am no longer young and strong. I have belief, and it had served me well for many years, but for some reason, I had to attempt to prove its validity...test it, one may say. Why this is important to me, I do not know. I have to be honest with myself, however. Perhaps I looked at God as a Being Who offered me a promise. And now, I find no evidence, no promise, (except blood,toil,tears, and sweat) and it frustrates me...but I wont ever take the step of abandoning my belief and going over to the dark side as many of you have done. Perhaps I am looking for the right answer in the wrong place.
I am looking inside myself, however. I cant let myself down or I will die. (or be miserable)... You may suggest that I give more spare change. All I know is that I owe money on medical bills, have no retirement saved up, am getting older and weaker, and on top of all that find no evidence of any sort of promise that I have believed in. How can your logic and wisdom be of any comfort to me? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8
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Stop. What I believe is completely irrelevant. What does the Bible SAY? Does it say, "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us," or not? And our geese will blot out the sun.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 6837 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 3.5
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His can't. Neither can mine. Neither can yours. The issues you have are political. No matter what world view you care to follow your only direct relief for these issues will be political. This society sucks for so many in your position. But we can change things at least somewhat maybe but we have to get political. That means lots of jawboning with friends, neighbors and co-workers. Gotta go man the phones and help set up the PA systems and racks of chairs. But ringo is right. Remember, there are many ways to hand out spare change that do not involve money. A smile, a helping hand, a kind word, a helpful gesture all good for a sagging disposition.
Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
OK, I'll admit that it says what it says and that it says that God said it. For some reason, this provides scant comfort for me. It is a story in a book from long long ago. I've been told that the book is inerrant. I've also been told and believed that the words were alive, like living water. All that is promised, however, is that I know good and evil and have to work my whole life. This is depressing! Granted some people are worse off than I am. Perhaps I never was promised anything special.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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Tangle Member Posts: 8580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.0
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None of us were. That's progress though - the beginning of realising that we need to make the best of what we are and not invest so much into impossible fantasies. You've been unlucky to have been born in a sophisticated country with contradictory unsophisticated and very primitive beliefs. You would have done better being born either in my Muslim village in the Atlas mountains where your beliefs wouldn't be challenged, or a 'nice' village in the Home Counties of England where your beliefs would be so flexible that they can't be threatened by anything. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8 |
It's the same book that contains the stories about Jesus. It's the only source you have.
In which case you should try to get something worthwhile out of them instead of throwing away the ones you don't like. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Humans think they will survive against incredible odds and conquer space (and time). Take away all of our gadgets and we are still much like bonobos. One reason why I need God is that I need to trust an authority wiser than I am. I also need support and encouragement. You seem to think God provides none of these. I will admit that I need to trust humans more, but I feel that you have ruled God out simply because of lack of objective evidence. Since when has belief ever hurt anyone? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 7433 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 2.8 |
Wow! Tee that one right up. Have you heard of any of these things? The Crusades. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8 |
What has pride got to do with it?
I've corrected you on that many times. No we don't. We know that most species go extinct and there's no reason to think that doesn't include us. And it's becoming more and more likely that we will become the authors of our own demise. BUT - we are all we've got.
What reason do you have to think that the God you made up is wiser than you, except that that's the way you made Him up to be? (I'm thinking of Ian Fleming making up James Bond - in his own image but better looking, gets more chicks, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound, etc.)
If you think He does, feel free to trundle out anything beyond your own imagination.
And you have ruled out Zeus and unicorns and leprechauns for the same reason. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
![]() I'm not convinced that it's best for us to teach society that cherished beliefs are a myth. And before you bring up Santa Claus, everybody knows he is a myth unless you are 4 years old. Finally, look at the many professionals who have degrees in Theology and Divinity and Philosophy who earned Doctorates in religious studies. Do you really think they dont believe? I guess im just puzzled why you alone (with a few others) concluded the way that you did. After all you spent a third of your life in churches. Was there not anyone who impressed you with honesty and good character? I sometimes feel as if skeptics and critics think all of Christianity is simply charlatans and fantasy based dreamers. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8
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Correction: Billions of people believe in thousands of Gods. A small handful believe Jesus is alive. So, logical fallacies aside, you lose the popularity contest anyway.
You're pretty confident that the Hindus and Muslims are in error, aren't you? Why shouldn't I have similar confidence that you are in error too - especially since I know the flaws in your belief much better than I know the flaws in those others?
There's no such thing.
So have I. Guess what? I don't explain them."God" is not a catchall explanation for the unexplained.
Every four-year-old Hindu knows that Jesus is a myth.
I think they believe in a thousand different mutually-exclusive denominations and deities. Your Appeal to Authority doesn't work any better than yor Appeal to Popularity.
Of course there were. Do you think there are no Hindus or Muslims or (shudder) Catholics with honesty and good character? Being honest doesn't make them right.
That's about it. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Stile Member Posts: 4087 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Yes - such is the confidence that comes along with searching for truth using objective evidence.
This fact is what points in the direction of having confidence that they are wrong. If the beliefs just started moments ago: "Wow - did you SEE that???" But that's not what's going on. We've seen this before - many people having subjective evidence with no objective evidence to back them up: Can you name one thing where millions of people believed in subjective evidence, and when objective evidence came around... they were right? If not, and I can name many, many examples of the objective evidence showing the "subjective evidence" to be false... that's what gives "confidence" that I am right and all the believers are in error.
I am impressed with the stories. I just don't have any confidence in them. Is it impossible for God to exist? Not at all.
I'm not convinced either. Perhaps it's time to try to aim society away from "subjective evidence." Perhaps some people need to have the entire world "believe something" so that they can, too.
My dream is that one day, some day... you will finally move past this false dichotomy you've been trained into holding onto. Again, for the umpteenth time: Nobody has a problem with believers who are honest and good people. There's only a problem when believers attempt to pass their "belief" as "truth." That's obviously wrong and needs to be stopped.
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Tangle Member Posts: 8580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.0 |
Pretty much 100% of divinity and theology students are believers - or at least that's my experience sharing a flat with one. And what they learn is not what they preach - most believers would call what they teach heresy. I'm surprised they survive.
quote: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism As for how people 'conclude the way they do'... multiple reasons but in global terms I doubt the majority conclude anything, they're just brought up that way. Just like you were. The rest ringo covered and I'm surprised you needed to ask, I mean, we've covered this stuff over and over again but you still ask the same questions. It's The Barrier isn't it? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Sarah Bellum Member Posts: 826 Joined:
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Why is the idea of Bible inerrancy so important?
Put it another way: what if the Bible had errors in it? The readers of the Bible would then have to use their own judgment about what to believe and how to act. But that is what they do already, isn't it? And different people come to different conclusions about what to believe and how to act. So to quote a famous philosopher, don't worry, be happy!
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Stile Member Posts: 4087 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
...to some people? I think it's a form of brainwashing/PTSD/just-the-way-they-are or, at least, something along that idea. They cannot entertain the idea that it might be wrong. That there may be something else that is equally or even more important.
A reasonable and logical pathway to identifying reality vs. belief.
Many people do things without knowing what they're actually doing. Many people never take that plunge into the level of honestly, fully understanding that "different people may think/act in different ways."
It really is so simple.
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