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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 763 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Bible Inerrancy stands against all objections | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17179 Joined: |
quote: Trump’s idea of “getting it right†includes executing people for crimes they didn’t commit. You have called for show trials and executions of opposition politicians. And what if the system is flawed so that we will get it wrong ? Are you really saying it is better for innocent people to be killed than to let the guilty serve long jail terms instead of being killed ?
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ringo Member Posts: 19760 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
quote: Which is why the Biblical standard is: quote: Nobody is qualified to cast the stone. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member Posts: 19760 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
My father used to say of people who were particularly stupid that they, "learned nothing and forgot nothing." And our geese will blot out the sun.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 6835 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 3.5
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Oh my sweetheart, you knew from the beginning. I never tried to keep it a secret from you. Maybe it wasn't direct enough. {arising} M'lady, I am an atheist. Oh, and yes... you're friggin off your noodle. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 763 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Would you please explain where you get this kind of thinking? That is, where do you get this idea that Bible inerrancy is really "bibliolatry" and so on. Does N T Wright teach it? The pastor of your church? I'm sure that your beliefs have all been described here but I don't think I could name them myself so I thought I'd ask. What do you believe about the following:
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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GDR Member (Idle past 271 days) Posts: 5410 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: |
Essentially I get it from the Bible. If we actually respect what God has to say to us through the Scriptures instead of understanding it as if God essentially dictated it, then we understand a coherent narrative that IMHO makes sense of my life and the world. The ability to reason is a gift from God and I have no doubt that we are intended to use that gift in understanding the scriptures. You cannot with reason square the idea of a loving god with a god that commands public stoning for any reason let alone trivial ones, or that commits and commands genocide with the a god that commands forgiveness, mercy and even love of enemies, but we have been over that. You cannot with reason explain away the contradictions in time and events. Our basic difference lies in how we understand what is written in the 66 books that make up the Bible. With your inerrantist method of understanding Scripture you can come up and declare what you believe are absolute answers to various questions. My view does leave more grey areas. Unlike yourself, I can’t pick a verse out of the Scriptures and claim it as an absolute truth. One of the quotes of CS Lewis that resonates with me is this quote that is on his memorial tablet in Westminster Abbey –“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything elseâ€. The three writers that have had the greatest impact on my understanding of Christian theology are all Brits. The three are CS Lewis as a Christian philosopher, NT Wright as a theologian and 1st century historian, and John Polkinghorne as a scientist and theologian.
Jesus’ death and resurrection was used as a means for God to start a new Kingdom of God movement. It was not a death so that we could simply have our sins forgiven and go to heaven when we die. If meant that death, the ultimate evil did not have the final answer. It meant that God was renewing the covenant for the world. It was a Kingdom composed of Jesus followers who took on a renewed life which was based on the life of Christ and whose characteristics are based on the love, forgiveness, mercy etc of Jesus. Its adherents are called to embody and reflect that love to the world. We do keep letting Him down don’t we.
Jesus prayed to God the Father. At the same time Jesus embodied Yahweh’s return to Israel. As John 1 says, the Word became flesh. I’d add that John didn’t say that the word became a book. God enthroned Jesus as metaphorically described in Daniel 7 where Jesus is given dominion over all nations.
I can accept the virgin conception as truth but it wouldn’t bother me if it could be shown to be a metaphor. It is only mentioned in 2 of the Gospels and not at all in the Epistles. It does have a legendary sense about it. In ways that I don’t understand but accept, God through the Holy Spirit endowed Jesus with the perfect understanding of His nature and the strength and wisdom to fulfill His God given mission on Earth.
I believe that God the Father brought life into existence and I leave to science to figure out how. I believe that Jesus the Son was born into our world at a particular time and place and that God the Father enthroned Him as Lord and gave Him dominion over the nations. I see the Holy Spirit as the still small voice of God that reaches out to all of us as our conscience.
Yes.
It was a renewed life form and a resurrection that foreshadows the ultimate resurrection of all of creation. He metaphorically seems to have had one foot in our earthly dimension and one foot in God’s heavenly dimension. I have no problem with the idea that walls wouldn’t contain Him.
I have no idea of what the disciples saw, and frankly it doesn’t matter anyway. The point is that Jesus went to be with the Father.
Yes, but not in the way that you envision. The scriptures are a lot more ambiguous than you think. Ultimately it is about new creation with a renewed heaven and earth that become one. Christ’s return is part of that. Whether it happens for all of creation at once or whether it happens individually as we shuffle off from our earthly existence I don’t pretend to know. I do know that in the next life I’m going to all the lectures. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 763 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I wasn't clear. I would like to know what authorities you are acquainted with who believe as you do about the Bible. Is Wright one? Your pastor? Any others?
Only the inerrant Bible can do that.
Certainly we are to use our reasoning ability but the scriptures are unique in being authored by God so using our reasoning ability to reject what he says is a misuse of our reasoning ability.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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GDR Member (Idle past 271 days) Posts: 5410 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: |
I answered the rest of your questions already. You want everything put in nice tidy boxes with bumper sticker labels. Christianity isn't like that. It is a faith of the heart. It isn't a religion of dos and don'ts. God is the great heart changer. and He calls us to use our renewed hearts to fulfill our vocation of reflecting His love into the world. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 763 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
That's a pretty weasely way of getting out of giving the simple yes or no answers my questions ask for. They do happen to be standard orthodox beliefs that can be answered that simply. "Let your yes be yes and your no be no. All else is of the devil" said Jesus.
Oh, and why does Wright have to know the OT better than the average bear in order to answer my simple questions? Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member Posts: 19760 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.9
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![]() quote:The context is (verses 34-36) about swearing oaths, so you'd better throw out your Oath of Allegiance. And the VERY next verse is: quote:which you're comfortable ignoring. ![]()
Are you aware that EVERY religion on earth has orthodox beliefs? So almost all orthodoxy is wrong. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 16091 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
You are forever like a smart alec 14-year-old challenging the status quo. Nowadays, you think you have grown up and have science and evidence on your side, but all you have proven is that your opponents have no evidence to bring to the table. This does not mean that you are somehow "right" by default. It just means that you have exercised your right to be a rebel and have an opinion apart from the one you grew up in for 1/3 of your life. You and I took different paths. I took the road marked Belief. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 763 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Just a remainder, Phat. We can't be like God the way Satan wanted to be, of course, meaning with His powers, but we ARE told in scripture "Be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect..." so MORALLY we are to work to be like Him. I know you know this, but in ringo's context it would easily get lost.
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ringo Member Posts: 19760 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
You work hard at forgetting, don't you? It Was GOD who said that Adam and Eve DID become more like Him. Satan has nothing to do with it.
But I'm not the one who is challenging the Bible. You are.
Evidence has nothing to do with this case. You are flatly denying what the Bible plainly says: Adam and Eve DID become more like God. That can not be a "fall".
In this case, the evidence is the Bible itself. You're denying the Book on which your belief is based. You're breaking your own circle. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 16091 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
We can agree that the evidence is expressed in words. We just don't agree with what evidence we are talking about, the source of such evidence, and the implications of modern evidence, primitive superstition, and the wisdom spoken in the words expressed.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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ringo Member Posts: 19760 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
You don't get your own private evidence. Evidence is what everybody agrees on. If we have a dead body with a hole in the chest, it is evident that it is dead: there are no vital signs, it is at room temperature, etc. The hole in the chest is also evident to everybody. What is NOT evident is: what caused the hole, whether the hole was the cause of death, etc. In the case that you're trying to weasel out of, it is evident that the Bible says, "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us...." GOD SAID IT. Do you deny that? Is that not evident to you? And our geese will blot out the sun.
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