The Right Side of the News

For now. What keeps it from changing later? One of the more notable moments of the recent State of the Union speech by Trump was when he said "The U.S. will never become a socialist country". In the mostly fanfare nature of State of the Union speeches, any vague, honeyed statement by the president always gets polite applause from the vice president, and speaker of the house seated behind him. In that case, Pelosi sat silent. It wasn't just her personally who sat silent, she was representing millions of her constituents with that action. Her and those millions don't have any more respect for Washington and Jefferson than they do for Lee.Mural of George Washington May Be Removed Because It 'Traumatizes Students'

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The group recommended having the mural, which includes numerous panels that make up the “Life of Washington,” removed because the artwork “glorifies oppression instead of eliminating it” and “has nothing to do with equity or inclusion at all.”

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Do you agree with this? Trump's wall isn't a "change". We've always had a southern border. It's merely a method for increasing security in an increasingly insecure area.

The only reasons I'm seeing for removing Lee's statues is because he was "racist". I don't know of any evidence that Lee himself supported the maintaining of slavery after he surrendered the South's position. But for business owners in the North, decades after the war to refuse service to any black person, doesn't show me any less racism than anything Lee ever promoted, yet there is no call to get even with them or their descendants. Why target Lee, why now?

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For now. What keeps it from changing later?

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I would hope the value of their actual achievements. But I don’t think we should be dictating to future generations what they should do about monuments in their country.

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One of the more notable moments of the recent State of the Union speech by Trump was when he said "The U.S. will never become a socialist country". In the mostly fanfare nature of State of the Union speeches, any vague, honeyed statement by the president always gets polite applause from the vice president, and speaker of the house seated behind him. In that case, Pelosi sat silent.

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And how exactly is that relevant ? Especially given that the US idea of “socialism” seems to be normal in Western Europe, even when Right Wing parties are in power ?

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Do you agree with this?

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I certainly don’t think that glorifying either slavery or the appalling treatment of the pre-Colombian inhabitants of America is appropriate. The mural might well be better moved to another setting where these issues can be discussed and explained.

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Trump's wall isn't a "change". We've always had a southern border. It's merely a method for increasing security in an increasingly insecure area.

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It is erecting barriers where none existed, and I think that people who will have access to their own land and the river restricted are likely to find it an unwelcome change.But if you want an even bigger example, the secession of the Confederacy was another big change that lead to massive conflict. The establishment of the state of Israel is another. And really, doesn’t the whole idea amount to violent thugs being able to veto any initiative through the threat of violence? That is not something any civilised person would want.

Your wish is my command. House votes to support illegal immigrant voting in local elections - Washington TimesYou simply can't mask today's Democrats intention to recruit immigrant's votes. They have no special rights in the U.S. concerning their "native language".

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The only reasons I'm seeing for removing Lee's statues is because he was "racist"

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And because he fought to preserve slavery - and that is the main thing he is remembered for. Hardly something to celebrate, I think.

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I don't know of any evidence that Lee himself supported the maintaining of slavery after he surrendered the South's position

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He is on record as saying that slavery should be continued indefinitely and I have yet to see evidence that his opinion changed.Moreover he was in favour of denying Blacks the right to vote even after surrender.

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But for business owners in the North, decades after the war to refuse service to any black person, doesn't show me any less racism than anything Lee ever promoted,

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I think it shows less racism than saying that they should be denied the right to vote.

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yet there is no call to get even with them or their descendants. Why target Lee, why now?

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There is no call to “get even” with Lee or his descendants either. He’s just seen as a figure who doesn’t deserve the honour of a statue in a prominent public place. I don’t note any calls to preserve statues of racist Northern business owners who are notable mainly for their racism. Do you ?

Then why are they denied the right and duty to refuse to enforce unfunded government mandates of auto emissions testing which will certainly harm their economies? Error 404

School board elections are not state or Federal elections, Marc.

It's relevant because Washington and Jefferson WERE NOT socialists. And they did dictate a LOT of things to future generations. In order to reduce to irrelevance who they were and what they did, their monuments and references must be scaled way back. Gotta get lesser historic figures like Lee out of the way first. That wasn't the question. Moved to another setting, discussed and explained, then removed from there? Incrementalism is alive and well in liberal thinking. The line that divides two countries, both of which have rules about those who attempt to cross it, is a barrier. If a poll were taken among land owners at the border, I think it would be pretty lopsided, concerning who favors, or doesn't favor, more border security including the wall. That was the second big change, the first was the north meddling in something that wasn't their business. The north not recognizing state's rights. Like northern troops with guns refusing to leave Fort Sumter, a place deep in southern territory?

But he seems to have been remembered differently when the statue was erected. What changed? His actual actions, or our memories? After the war was over? If so, reference please. As were many northerners - who really thought that blacks in the late 1800's were informed enough to vote, considering the short length of time they'd been here and their lack of education?

Just like no smoking laws on airline flights of 2 hours or less wasn't a total smoking ban on all airline flights. It took 12 more years to get the total ban. Democrats love incrementalism.

So you think people should be able to smoke on flights? Also, please show there is any move to allow non-citizens to vote in federal elections. If you have nothing than your argument is worthless.What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

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It's relevant because Washington and Jefferson WERE NOT socialists. And they did dictate a LOT of things to future generations. In order to reduce to irrelevance who they were and what they did, their monuments and references must be scaled way back. Gotta get lesser historic figures like Lee out of the way first

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OK it’s just an excuse for your conspiracy theory crap. What a surprise.

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That wasn't the question.

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By which you mean you don’t want those aspects to be considered at all. Unfortunately for you they are very relevant to the question.

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Moved to another setting, discussed and explained, then removed from there? Incrementalism is alive and well in liberal thinking.

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I am not suggesting that.

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The line that divides two countries, both of which have rules about those who attempt to cross it, is a barrier. If a poll were taken among land owners at the border, I think it would be pretty lopsided, concerning who favors, or doesn't favor, more border security including the wall.

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In other words you just assume that the people who will be inconvenienced will support the change.

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That was the second big change, the first was the north meddling in something that wasn't their business. The north not recognizing state's rights.

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You are really coming out as a supporter of slavery now. While the Confederacy used “States Rights” rhetoric when it was convenient it hardly seemed to apply when those rights got in the way of slavery.If an escaped slave is in a free State’s jurisdiction it seems to me that it is that State’s business what they do about him or her. But the slave States insisted on having their way there. And they did.

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Like northern troops with guns refusing to leave Fort Sumter, a place deep in southern territory?

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I certainly don’t mean people defending themselves from aggression, so no. But since you consider that sufficient “conflict” it seems that you agree that the secession of the Confederate States was wrong by the principle you invoked.

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But he seems to have been remembered differently when the statue was erected. What changed? His actual actions, or our memories?

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Was he ? We are talking about a society that was erecting mass-produced Confederate monuments in the 1950’s and 1960’s in opposition to the Civil Rights movement. Support for White Supremacy is not a new thing and it was certainly the motive for erecting many of the monuments concerned. If you think there were motives for this one unconnected with Lee being a Confederate general it’s up to you to produce evidence.

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After the war was over? If so, reference please.

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He expressed the opinion before the war - in the letter previously quoted. If you have evidence that his opinion changed at the end of the war you should produce references.

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As were many northerners - who really thought that blacks in the late 1800's were informed enough to vote, considering the short length of time they'd been here and their lack of education?

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The 15th Amendment passed in 1870 and guaranteed the right to vote. So it seems that your view was hardly dominant.

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Do you really believe that this administration would not act if they were really violating Feder law?

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Exactly what Federal law do you think they are violating?

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Error 404

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In other words they aren’t violating any Federal law. Tell me Marc, do you not bother to properly read your sources or do you just bluff and hope that nobody else will read them ?

That's allowing local communities to let undocumented immigrants to vote in LOCAL elections. Allowing them to vote in state or Federal elections would be prima facie unconstitutional.I specified state or Federal elections for a reason. Fail. Of course right wingers are big fans of local control, except when the locals don't do what the right wingers want them to.BTW you neglected to specify "other problems".You obviously mentioned literacy to slur them as poorly educated. Literacy in their native language belies that. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.Edited by JonF, : No reason given.