Christian principles in relation to government

The great majority of Christians think the Red Letter people are wrong. Jubilee and leaving part of your field for the poor is to individuals but it's a law directed to the entire community of the people of God. Jesus is always only talking to His individual followers, and how could He be addressing people in this fallen world anyway who don't follow His teachings?Here's an example from the PBS series "The Crown," where the young Queen Elizabeth wants to do the Christian thing toward her Nazi sympathizing Uncle, the King who had abdicated his throne to marry a divorcee but also publicly aligned himself with Hitler. She has an audience with Billy Graham and asks him about the necessity of forgiving our enemies without explaining the situation she had in mind. Graham gave her the advice I think he would give to her as an individual thinking about a personal enemy, that forgiveness is necessary, but I have to suspect if he knew the circumstance he wouldn't give that advice.Is it necessary in your mind that acting as head of state she should forgive a traitor to her country? Can she forgive an enemy of the state who isn't her personal enemy?I don't think so, do you?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So what? Assuming that you could even prove that dubious assertion. Most people who think they are following Christ are actually failing to do so. So what do numbers mean? Yes. How is this some kind of refutation of my point? It is not. Is that what we are debating about? Policies that are traitorous to this country? Or are we discussing economic policies that do something other than favor the wealthy?Your response is laughable. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I thought we were debating the applicability of Jesus' teachings to government in contrast to the Old Testament laws. I think the example of forgiving the traitor illustrates my general point, that the Red Letter people are wrong. Sure, you can apply the principles of Jubilee and leaving something for the poor from the Old Testament, but that is not what the Red Letter people are talking about, which should have been clear from the OP.Perhaps I misunderstood you.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

If Korea should bomb San Francisco, should Trump turn the other cheek on behalf of the nation?

We are instead talking about Christians and their own decisions. We are not talking about a secular government that owes no responsibility to the people. What is in question are the choices of evangelic Christians. Well, your thoughts are not logical. Using an example of something bad, and something which the Red Letter people are not advocating does not demonstrate that they are wrong. Treating folks within your borders as Christ would have you is not traitorous. You are raising a red herring. Let's turn that around. It a government official was involved in activity deterimental to this country, are Christians obliged to just go along?Do you actually have a point?Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Nobody is advocating mistreating them in any way at all, but if they are here illegally, by disobeying our laws, they need to be dealt with as lawbreakers. Christ says nothing about punishing anyone because He is not addressing government and Law, but governments have the job of punishing lawbreakers.There is really something wrong with YOUR logic.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The question here is about what our laws ought to be Faith and how we ought to administer them. Please keep up. For example, should we be separating immigrant children from their parents if we don't have to do that?Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I told you what our laws ought to be. Please follow the argument.

That is not the last word on what is right and wrong. Please apply some Christian principles at some point in real life.

Fortunately I don't have to struggle with the problem.Christians have historically more or less abandoned the Bible for guidance on this and have reverted to Greek wisdom on the matter. I suppose Jesus should have anticipated this problem better since it would dominate his post resurrected world.I do know that if Trump committed mass murder against the citizens of the government who attacked the USA, it would fall foul of Jus ad bellum and regardless of 'it was in the national interest' he would be condemned by most Christians and Atheists alike.It's one thing to correctly react - it's another thing to react in an ungodly fashion.'Deport the undocumented' may survive a certain theological perspective but 'tear families apart and keep them separated for months or years' surely runs afoul of the personal mercy Jesus implored all of us, including those with executive power, to use.

[sarcasm mode on]
Yeah, but what if they are making America browner with their very presence in this country?
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And they aren't Christians, they are Roman Catholics.

I believe Trump made it clear that he doesn't approve of separating families at the border, and that this is done under Obama's law, not his. I think he should have anticipated that and corrected it a while back myself.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Look, this thread is about the theology of the Red Letter group which I'm arguing is clearly wrong and I haven't seen a reasonable argument to the contrary. Jesus did not address government or legal questions, He addressed His own disciples, period. His teachings were quite enough down the centuries to change the face of civilization for the better through individual action. If you want Biblical principles for running a government they are abundant in the Old Testament, and thoroughly merciful and humane laws they are too. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

and unsurpisingly he's lying about this.