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Author | Topic: Believe in UFOs? This editorial's for you! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.2 |
Sometimes it's hard to tell in this place if it's the post that slipped a knot or if I'm having another senior moment. Oh, you're have another senior monument.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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anglagard Member (Idle past 1092 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined:
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LamarkNewAge writes: Luis Elizondo says that the government has much more evidence of UFOs, via video ( in addition to other detection methods), than what has already been disclosed. The UFO skeptics are going to be ( hopefully) forced to deal with the evidence that matters, not the "evidence" that does not matter. This is the same threat I have heard all my life. Some joker I never heard of is going to prove X due to a secret film or some form of esoteric knowledge even Einstein was too stupid to figure out. X=a) UFOs as more than a weird form of parodelia b) Creationism c) Ancient aliens d) Bigfoot, Yeti, Loch Ness Monster, Dinosaurs in the Congo Basin, and so on. e) Demons, boogeymen, ghosts, poltergeists, leprechauns, the monster under the bed, and so on. f) Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and so on. g) Pentecostalism, Evangelicalism, Fundamentalism, and so on. h) and so on. Unidentified Flying Objects are exactly that - unidentified. Sometimes footage indicates some phenomena is occurring for which no satisfactory explanation exists. This is almost always later revealed, after the documents get declassified, that the most puzzling are probably DARPA or a foreign equivalent, while the obvious hoaxes are ignored. The obvious hoaxes seem to be a factor ignored even more by the adherents than the military, which is somewhat concerned about false positives, but I guess the adherents don't know about PSYOPS or ACI. Google.
Science was dealt a setback around 300 to 500 CE, and there was a dark age for 1000 years. Science seems to move forward - eventually. It is a question of how long it takes. Um...Have you kept up with modern historians or did your reading of history stop with Thomas Carlyle's "dark age?" Dark age for who? Muslims?, Chinese?, Asoka?, Mayans?, Toltecs?, Khmer?, Ghana?, Mali?, Songhai?, Ethiopia? shit, even Mongols? For that matter even Europe, does Notre Dame, Rheims, St.Pauls, Hagia Sofia, Lindisfarne ring a bell? Not seein' how the Flavian Coliseum, the Circus Maximus, or the Baths of Caracalla are that much more advanced in an architectural sense. How about individual scholarship? I call your hand. I have Bede, Aquinas, Dante, Giotto, Occam. Let's see, Virgil, OK, Livy, OK, Aurelius, well OK since he is from planet Vulcan, wait, what is this? Aristotle and Plato! those dudes are Greek! Judges! Google. Also, your panties are showing. And you want to lecture me about science as well as history of science? Tell me something new, I live to learn new things no matter how insignificant the messenger may feel about the value of the message. Look, LamarkNewAge, I don't consider you as immediately dangerous, as in a traitor, psychopath, religious fanatic, or Trump supporter. What concerns me is your gullibility and complete lack of skepticism. Dude, the term "new age" is in your avatar, among other things. Get thee henceforth to the nearest public library, the cataloging will likely be Dewey. Start at 200 and kill it. Move to 500, kill it, 900 kill it, to stay healthy this MLS recommends after 900 start back at the beginning and read everything you skipped. It cures both dementia and public embarrassment.
Now or later? Now! Wanna dance big boy?The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do. Republican = death
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AnswersInGenitals Member (Idle past 406 days) Posts: 673 Joined:
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The most amazing power that UFO's (or UAPs) demonstrate - totally beyond any known human capability, is the power to reduce the resolution and contrast of any imaging system within site of said UFO to render any images taken - optical or radar or whatever - to an indistinct, fuzzy blob.
Actually, Japanese porn videographers seem to have developed the same capability when it comes to displaying genitalia, or so I've been told.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2497 Joined: |
So how was the Hagia Sophia some sort of scientific driver?
I also have to wonder just what you think my point was. You mentioned an Indian king from BCE times plus Aristotle. I suppose you were saying that Ibdiand and Middle Easterners preserved their works. Standard historical treatments state that after the fall of the West Roman Empire, Europeans simply relied upon ancient Greek scientific writings, but science was stuck for about 1000 years.
quote: P.213
quote: I see nothing that contradicts my roughly 1000 year gap in scientific advances from roughly the time of Constantine. 1100 saw some catching up, among Europeans, and most discoveries and theories were roughly before, or during 300-500 AD. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.2
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The Pentagon’s UFOs
How a Multimedia Entertainment Company Created a UFO News Story quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: So, it looks like the so-called evidence in the 60 Minutes episode were complete bullshit, not released by the Pentagon at all, but instead by the UFO nuts. And the guy, Elizondo, doesn't work for the Pentagon or AATIP, let alone manage it.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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So, you're telling me it isn't aliens?
Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 1092 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined:
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Lamark G.Paltrow writes: So how was the Hagia Sophia some sort of scientific driver? Of course, all large edifices are inherently a scientific driver. Back around 1940 when the Tacoma Narrows Bridge went falling down, the professional engineer who signed off on the project witness their career and salary just as underwater as those bridge parts currently at the bottom of Puget Sound. The money and the power don't give a shit about any "harmonic vibrations," your ass is grass because bridge fall down. Let's take a trip to the past via the wayback machine (I know talking dogs and punk-ass four-eyed ginger brats in high places). Now, lets say you are the main architect, like Imhotep, well, if the pyramid fails, The pharoh isn't going to be interested in any jive-assed angle of repose, and these are the good-old days, so you lose more than a professional license and a high-payin' job. Can you guess what that is? Think it never happened:
Attribution: lienyuan lee Ok, so now you are the head architect for Notre Dame, Chartes, Hagia Sofia, the King's chateau, whatever. Do you think the king wants to hear about how the soil can't handle the weight? Yeah, if your walls come tumbling down, you best invent the buttress on the spot if you would like to be the one who keeps their head when others lose theirs. Now, that is one hell of a way to encourage the development of science and engineering but, hey, it worked.
I also have to wonder just what you think my point was. Mistaking Europe for the World is one.Claiming science had absolutely no progress in Europe between 500 and 1500 makes two. Both are wrong, that is my point.
You mentioned an Indian king from BCE times plus Aristotle. I suppose you were saying that Ibdiand and Middle Easterners preserved their works. I understand you exclusively post on a smartphone, so I will take the liberty to assume Ibdiand means Indian. Yes, I mentioned Asoka (304-232 BCE), that was a simple test of reading comprehension, which you passed. I am definitely arguing the Muslims preserved classical works, some through the Byzantines, and maybe a bit from the Desi in India. (as an aside, I prefer using the recent term Desi over Indian or South Asian to avoid any confusion with the term "American Indians.") As which did the most, I say the Muslims because of the documentation but to go into detail would easily take a RAZD-sized effort in a separate post.
Standard historical treatments state that after the fall of the West Roman Empire, Europeans simply relied upon ancient Greek scientific writings, but science was stuck for about 1000 years. "Standard historical treatments" apparently means the cutting edge of historical scholarship during the Victorian era, as a lot has happened since WW2 that you seem unfamiliar with. Such as the modern interpretation of Medieval history to name but one.
I see nothing that contradicts my roughly 1000 year gap in scientific advances from roughly the time of Constantine. 1100 saw some catching up, among Europeans, and most discoveries and theories were roughly before, or during 300-500 AD. Maybe you should try looking.The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do. Republican = death
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.2
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So, you're telling me it isn't aliens? Yep, it's just UFOlogists making stuff up. Us: Where's the evidence? UFOlogists: The Pentagon has it. The Pentagon:What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
Yep, it's just UFOlogists making stuff up. Damn. But we've been told, rightfully so, that it's never aliens until it is. So, when's it going to be aliens already? I'm not getting any younger here.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2497 Joined: |
Where to begin?
One of your big themes is that you attack historians for claiming there was a dark age in Europe from 476 to 1300. You like to make examples out of ones who lived really long ago. You then claim that these are Eurocentric academics who ignored the rest of the world. The BIG PROBLEM is your strange memory problems, which cause one glaring inconsistency in your categorization of the history of academic writing. The same dark age peddling historians, that you so disdain, were generally promoters of the idea that Midfle Easterners ( especially the ones that ruled during the Caliphate of Cordoba) were a light in the surrounding darkness. More themes of yours: I don't recall you mentioning the Mesoamerican's scientific knowledge, but I am sure you would throw those accomplishments into the mix of your academic enemy's list of sins, while your Eurocentric accusations get their high frequency output. My response there is just to point out that Mayans, and related peoples, were isolated from the old world, and while they were independently advanced in science, the pre-Colombus New World accomplishments, had no contribution to the line of scientific research & knowledge (not even indirectly) that brought about modern astronomy ( Kepler was born in 1571, so let us consider him as an example of a link between the Ptolemaic and Copernican "schools" we all see as in historical succession). It does not mean Mayans were in any way inferior or shoved aside due to cultural bias. The main theme of yours seems to be that Europeans were always advancing scientifically anyway. You use the 1000 year Byzantium region ( with its wealthy Byzantine empire) as an example. You are clearly impressed with architecture (bigger is better?) and you clearly feel that the use of geometry, by engineering geniuses, will constitute a very "hard" "science". You will probably even consider the engineering challenges, of large buildings, to constitute "scientific experimentation" when it is accompanied with multiple decades of collapsing structures and seemingly endless imperial funds ( thanks to Theodora stealing money from families trying to free enslaved relatives) earmarked for the biggest domed building ever. I will just say the geometric work was already done centuries prior. and the style of the dome was already designed , again, centuries earlier. I suppose you feel that any manufacturing constitutes "science"? The crossbow would be a great "scientific marvel", right? Not that it did not enable the Mongols to destroy the world, mind you. ( And I should point out that much of what is described as medieval "science" was really humanism, or the love of writings from the past)
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2497 Joined: |
John Glenn said that UFOs were always traveling near him when he went up into space. He said that you knew that you weren't supposed to say anything about it.
Edgardo Mitchell and Gordon Cooper would still hear from their fellow astronauts about UFOs. Observations from witnesses mean something, scientifically speaking, not blathering from non astronauts (who form the bedrock of the UFO "skeptic" community). I trust the scientific work, of an observer with a telescope, over a legally blind babbler who refuses to wear his glasses, and I will any day of the week. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
John Glenn said that UFOs were always traveling near him ... These men went where no one had gone before. They experienced physical and mental stresses we can't even imagine. If they say they saw something unidentified there is more than ample reason to believe them.
Observations from witnesses mean something, scientifically speaking ... Yes, they do, especially such prominent witnesses, but not as much as you're trying to make out. Not even a drop in the bucket of the evidence required. If you're trying to say it's aliens all the way down or something then an introduction of the Alien Ambassador to the world via FOXNews would be helpful. And the schematics for their infinite improbability drive. Another round of fuzzy pictures will not suffice. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 1092 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined:
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LamarkNewAge writes: One of your big themes is that you attack historians for claiming there was a dark age in Europe from 476 to 1300. You like to make examples out of ones who lived really long ago. No. I support modern historians who use the term Medieval instead of Victorian ones who use the term "dark ages."
You then claim that these are Eurocentric academics who ignored the rest of the world. Victorian historians were extremely Eurocentric overall. Are you claiming they weren't?
The BIG PROBLEM is your strange memory problems, which cause one glaring inconsistency in your categorization of the history of academic writing. The same dark age peddling historians, that you so disdain, were generally promoters of the idea that Midfle Easterners ( especially the ones that ruled during the Caliphate of Cordoba) were a light in the surrounding darkness. And where is Cordoba located? Not the Middle East.
You are clearly impressed with architecture (bigger is better?) and you clearly feel that the use of geometry, by engineering geniuses, will constitute a very "hard" "science". You will probably even consider the engineering challenges, of large buildings, to constitute "scientific experimentation" when it is accompanied with multiple decades of collapsing structures and seemingly endless imperial funds ( thanks to Theodora stealing money from families trying to free enslaved relatives) earmarked for the biggest domed building ever. Well, technically no one prior to the 17th century was doing science as the scientific method was not remotely defined yet. So, I am using architecture, scholarship, and technology, as stand-ins because that's all we have.
I suppose you feel that any manufacturing constitutes "science"? The crossbow would be a great "scientific marvel", right? Not that it did not enable the Mongols to destroy the world, mind you. Crossbows were mainly used by Europeans, Mongols generally used the compound bow. My main point is modern scholarship in the formal study of history does not support any Victorian notion of "dark ages" between 500-1500 CE in Europe. Besides, isn't this thread supposed to be about UFOs? Perhaps conversations about the nature of Medieval history are better handled elsewhere.The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do. Republican = death
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anglagard Member (Idle past 1092 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined:
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AnswersInGenitals writes: The most amazing power that UFO's (or UAPs) demonstrate - totally beyond any known human capability, is the power to reduce the resolution and contrast of any imaging system within site of said UFO to render any images taken - optical or radar or whatever - to an indistinct, fuzzy blob. Actually, Japanese porn videographers seem to have developed the same capability when it comes to displaying genitalia, Point well taken, and amusing to boot.
or so I've been told. I prefer primary sources, but yes I can, with all confidence, confirm that secondary-source observation as correct.The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do. Republican = death
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 851 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
All this UFO stuff reminds me of the visions of the protagonist of The Gernsback Continuum
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