|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 63 (9204 total) |
| |
azlesmiles | |
Total: 919,285 Year: 6,542/9,624 Month: 120/270 Week: 33/83 Day: 7/12 Hour: 0/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: REMIX: Who Can Be Saved? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1674 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The funny thing is I have some evidence for my view, but there isn't any for yours.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 964 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
You have yet to show any evidence after more than fifteen years here. I think there’s at least a smidgin or so of evidence that electrical signals in nerves cease shortly after death. They’ve been monitoring nematodes and such for a pretty long time now.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1674 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, there's the Bible. Doesn't matter what you think of it, it does testify to supernatural phenomena and has been accepted as the truth by millions over millennia. There is testimony in most cultures and religions around the world of encounters with supernatural beings. Many cultures and religions have elaborations of an afterlife, both paradises and hells. Buddhism and Hinduism do. Hades preexisted the English idea of Hell, and preexisted the Bible for that matter. Today there are "near-death" experiences" which I think are satanically engineered but they do testify of a spiritual life beyond the merely physical.
Your evidence is evidence of physical death, it shows nothing whatever about a supernatural or spiritual dimension in which the soul persists after physical death. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
U sure you wont go to hell where you will burn and cry for ever and ever, sent there by an almighty all perfect deity because he loves you.
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Well, there's the Bible. Doesn't matter what you think of it, it does testify to supernatural phenomena and has been accepted as the truth by millions over millennia. There is testimony in most cultures and religions around the world of encounters with supernatural beings. Many cultures and religions have elaborations of an afterlife, both paradises and hells. Buddhism and Hinduism do. Hades preexisted the English idea of Hell, and preexisted the Bible for that matter. Today there are "near-death" experiences" which I think are satanically engineered but they do testify of a spiritual life beyond the merely physical. But none of those are evidence of anything other than evidence that humans can hold beliefs not based on evidence.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Everything to do with an afterlife is satanically engineered - "Satan" being the part of our minds that tries to fools us into doing bad things. Today there are "near-death" experiences" which I think are satanically engineered but they do testify of a spiritual life beyond the merely physical.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1674 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Witness evidence IS evidence and there's TONS of it for these phenomena. It takes a stubborn bias to refuse to acknowledge that basic obvious fact.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Witness evidence IS evidence and there's TONS of it for these phenomena. LOL Where are the tons of witnesses of what happened in the Garden of Eden? AbE: And witness evidence is the absolute weakest least reliable evidence possible. Further, there are NOT tons of witnesses of any supernatural event. Edited by jar, : see AbE: Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18599 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.0 |
jar writes: If as you say it is but a story, the readers are the witnesses of what happened in the Garden of Eden. Where are the tons of witnesses of what happened in the Garden of Eden? AbE: And witness evidence is the absolute weakest least reliable evidence possible. Further, there are NOT tons of witnesses of any supernatural event. And if God is simply a character in a book, all we are witnesses of is what the book says. Do you believe that God exists outside of the book? Not asking if you know...that would require evidence. Which also explains why you always ask how anyone would know. Do you believe that God exists outside of the book...or any book....yes or no?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: If as you say it is but a story, the readers are the witnesses of what happened in the Garden of Eden. And if God is simply a character in a book, all we are witnesses of is what the book says. Do you believe that God exists outside of the book? Not asking if you know...that would require evidence. Which also explains why you always ask how anyone would know. Do you believe that God exists outside of the book...or any book....yes or no? As I have pointed out in this very thread, my personal beliefs are irrelevant beyond being my personal beliefs. Is there any reason you should be allowed to know my personal beliefs beyond what I have already posted at EvC? If I believed that God existed would that even have any meaning?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18599 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.0 |
jar writes: Good question. Do you think that there would be any way for you to know? If I believed that God existed would that even have any meaning?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: jar writes: Good question. Do you think that there would be any way for you to know? If I believed that God existed would that even have any meaning? Know what? Certainly I can know what I believe but would that have and reality beyond just knowing what I believe? Does what a person claims to believe have any relevance in whether or not you are influenced by what they claim to believe? Are you more likely to agree with what an atheist points out what is written in Genesis 2&3 or what a believer says in written in Genesis 2&3 or would you actually go read Genesis 2&3 and see for yourself what it says? Can you read Genesis 2&3 and just accept what is actually written or must you filter it through the additional layers of Dogmatic Apologist additions and revisions?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18599 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.0 |
Are you more likely to agree with what an atheist points out what is written in Genesis 2&3 or what a believer says in written in Genesis 2&3 or would you actually go read Genesis 2&3 and see for yourself what it says? Can you read Genesis 2&3 and just accept what is actually written or must you filter it through the additional layers of Dogmatic Apologist additions and revisions? First of all, why would I have any reason to mistrust the apologists? How do I know that their interpretation is any worse than what I may come up with through a plain reading? What type of reality are you hinting that I must accept?For example, you believe(correct me if I'm wrong) that the story teaches that God gave us the gift of discernment and that this is enough...that we should not expect any other interference, guidance, or help from God. In fact, you believe that there is no evidence that God interferes with or guides, adjusts, and charts peoples destiny. So in answer to whether I would trust an atheist's plain reading vs some believers, I would say no....I'll stick with the believers. And yet you claim to be a believer and yet teach that I Must do what needs to be done in my life. Its just not how I was taught is all. You may as well be an atheist.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: First of all, why would I have any reason to mistrust the apologists? How do I know that their interpretation is any worse than what I may come up with through a plain reading? What type of reality are you hinting that I must accept? You mistrust anyone that tells you what something means and instead go and read the actual source and see what is actually written.
Phat writes: For example, you believe(correct me if I'm wrong) that the story teaches that God gave us the gift of discernment and that this is enough...that we should not expect any other interference, guidance, or help from God. As usual, you are wrong. I say that the Genesis 2&3 story says that we learned right from wrong. Actually the Genesis 2&3 story doesn't tell us anything about what we should do with it which should be yet another clue that that is NOT the only topic. It does go on to list a bunch of things, why we fear snakes, why childbirth seems more painful for women, why we are farmers not hunter gatherers, why we wear clothes instead of just staying naked, why we have a society based on rules and why women should be subject to men.
Phat writes: In fact, you believe that there is no evidence that God interferes with or guides, adjusts, and charts peoples destiny. Again, stop trying to say what I believe until you learn how to do it without being constantly wrong. I have asked repeatedly for anyone to provide any evidence of any supernatural interference, guidance, adjustment or charting of peoples destiny and so far no one has ever provided any such evidence of any supernatural interference, guidance, adjustment or charting of peoples destiny.
Phat writes: So in answer to whether I would trust an atheist's plain reading vs some believers, I would say no....I'll stick with the believers. And yet you claim to be a believer and yet teach that I Must do what needs to be done in my life. Its just not how I was taught is all. You may as well be an atheist. So you will deny reality because you do not like the content of a message. Got it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1674 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Witness evidence is the only possible evidence for this sort of phenomena and there is lots of it. If you discount it as you do then of course you have no evidence at all, but you're just fooling yourself in that case.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024