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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1375
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1142 of 1184 (909291)
03-30-2023 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1134 by Taq
03-30-2023 5:15 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
Let's be real. The main reason people own assault rifles is because they think they are cool and fun to shoot. There are paranoid nutjobs who think they need to guard themselves from some fever dream fantasy they have, but those are the minority, a very scary minority.
Yes, some of them were sitting on planes on 9/11 wishing they had a gun, a few minutes before they died. #4.
If people have anything other than a handgun for home defense, chances are those other guns are either for hunting or for fun.
Yes, it's fun to have a skill. Especially a skill that can prove life-and-death useful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1134 by Taq, posted 03-30-2023 5:15 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1143 by Theodoric, posted 03-30-2023 10:08 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 1149 by Taq, posted 03-31-2023 4:11 PM marc9000 has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8495
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1143 of 1184 (909292)
03-30-2023 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1142 by marc9000
03-30-2023 8:51 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
How much of an ammosexual are you? What guns do you own? Do you have any training? Do you know how to maintain a weapon? Have you or anyone you know ever used one in self defense? Have you ever had to shoot anyone? If so with what weapon?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1142 by marc9000, posted 03-30-2023 8:51 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8055
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1144 of 1184 (909293)
03-30-2023 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1135 by marc9000
03-30-2023 7:34 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
That wasn't the question. 9/11, and countless other possibilities of U.S mainland attacks don't include the U.S. military.
Oh bullshit.
Out come the right-wing nightmare fantasies to justify killing more kids in school.
I know there isn't a heaven but if there was you would not qualify.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1135 by marc9000, posted 03-30-2023 7:34 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17488
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1145 of 1184 (909296)
03-31-2023 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1140 by marc9000
03-30-2023 8:46 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
quote:
Nope, not on the side of the mass shooting recruiting, sensationalizing news media.
OK so you are one of those people who doesn’t really care about the deaths.
quote:
The ratings seeking, climate change loving news media springs to mind for me.
So you’re fine with people egregiously lying about Sandy Hook. But you hate people telling the truth about climate change.
Maybe you’re one of those people longing for the breakdown of society so they can get down to the real murdering. They’re right-wing gun nuts, too,
quote:
What logic!
If someone doesn’t want action taken to prevent school shootings and tells stupid lies to try to stop it, it’s pretty clear that they want school shootings to continue,
Pretty simple. Even you should be able to understand it,
quote:
This recent, school shooter, even though mentally ill, proved that even someone mentally ill is able to plan and prepare for their moments of notoriety. They can also plan their way around government "bans".
Yawn. No solution is perfect. But making it much harder to obtain the weapons would certainly help.
quote:
I have to remind myself that people who actually claim to think new laws are in any way going to reduce school shootings might have a climate change big government appetite that overcomes their common sense.
Presumably you mean that they are actually opposed to children being murdered, unlike you,
quote:
Oh my bad, they didn't censor it, they FLAGGED it! There must be a major difference, maybe one of your fixers can help you explain it!
Flagging just means that they labelled it as misinformation. That isn’t censorship.
quote:
That's what happened on 9/11 isn't it? it would be impossible for a Pearl Harbor air attack on a U.S. NON military installation, wouldn't it? Swoop down low, bomb it, and fly away long before the U.S. military shows up? Or suicide ram it? A few AR-15's can pick them out of the sky, if someone knows how to use it. A disarmed public cannot. Far fetched I know. So was 9/11.
Neither of them were invasions and armed civilians could do nothing to stop Pearl Harbour. As for 9/11, allowing guns on flights means that the terrorists can take their guns on flights. I think we all know that isn’t a great idea. And armed civilians on the ground aren’t going to do anything about it.
quote:
More amazing liberal logic. Can you quote anything I've said that suggests that?
The whole idea that the Taliban could launch a successful invasion of the U.S. unless there were armed civilians to stop them reveals a profound contempt for the US military.
quote:
Armed citizens can be a factor for any variety of SURPRISE attacks, committed and over minutes, hours, or days before the military can get there. Like 9/11.
So obviously you can’t defend your original claim. And armed civilians wouldn’t be much use against most surprise attacks either. They wouldn’t be any use at Pearl Harbour. I doubt they would be much use in a real 9/11 situation either - not if the terrorists had guns too. Which they would if you allowed guns on planes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1140 by marc9000, posted 03-30-2023 8:46 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21581
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1146 of 1184 (909301)
03-31-2023 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1134 by Taq
03-30-2023 5:15 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
Taq writes:
If people have anything other than a handgun for home defense, chances are those other guns are either for hunting or for fun.
It bears repeating that guns and ammunition properly stored in separate lockboxes are useless for home defense except in cases of substantial warning.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1134 by Taq, posted 03-30-2023 5:15 PM Taq has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21581
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1147 of 1184 (909302)
03-31-2023 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1135 by marc9000
03-30-2023 7:34 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
marc9000 writes:
That wasn't the question. 9/11, and countless other possibilities of U.S mainland attacks don't include the U.S. military. The U.S. military isn't present in every day American life. 9/11 was an attack on everyday American life. The U.S. military wasn't present until it was all over.
What are you imagining that a better armed citizenry would have done about 9/11?
Nope, this is the world of a wide open southern border.
How are you defining "wide open southern border"?
Maybe something to do with chemical / biological weapons. It will be a quick surprise, just like 9/11. A disarmed U.S. public could very well make it easier for them.
...
The American military buzzsaw was not present on 9/11. And if Afghanistan has any plans with chemical / biological weapons, they're smart enough to see to it that the U.S. military won't be present until they're done, and probably dead. Suicide attackers are like that.
What are you imagining that a well armed citizenry could do about chemical and biological weapons? Fighting these kinds of surreptitious attacks is more the realm of the CIA and other national security organizations than the military.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1135 by marc9000, posted 03-30-2023 7:34 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1151 by marc9000, posted 04-01-2023 9:27 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21581
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1148 of 1184 (909303)
03-31-2023 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1137 by marc9000
03-30-2023 7:48 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
marc9000 writes:
But the link I put up worked! This statement was there;
quote:
This post was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed.
That's what it said! Why should I go down a rabbit trail hoping to find something that contradicts it?
The point was that the article communicated a false impression. That post was not "flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed." Facebook merely says, "Sorry, this content isn't available right now." Anyone who thinks they know why it's unavailable is engaging in speculation. But if the content was actually "false news and misinformation" then I'm glad Facebook isn't making it available.
It mystifies me that you still seem to be in the fantasy land that Facebook and Twitter don't / didn't censor Republican free speech.
I've made no statements on the subject, so it's a mystery why you you think you know my position.
I'm against censorship, but I'm also against the media repeating what they know to be misstatements of fact using the excuse that they're merely reporting what was said or claimed.
You don't think that an armed populace has anything to do with possible tactics of U.S. enemies?
For an invasion? No. An armed citizenry might serve as the foundational basis for a resistance should an invasion prove successful.
Do you think the Afghanistan occupiers current thoughts and plans take NO consideration of an armed, or disarmed U.S. general public?
Why are you imagining an Afghanistan invasion? Do they even have a Navy?
I'm sorry, Marc, but to me you seem way out there. Conspiracy theories seem to have much greater appeal to you than reality.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1137 by marc9000, posted 03-30-2023 7:48 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1153 by marc9000, posted 04-01-2023 10:14 PM Percy has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9724
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1149 of 1184 (909316)
03-31-2023 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1142 by marc9000
03-30-2023 8:51 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
marc9000 writes:
Yes, some of them were sitting on planes on 9/11 wishing they had a gun, a few minutes before they died.
So you think people should be allowed to take assault rifles onto planes???
Yes, it's fun to have a skill. Especially a skill that can prove life-and-death useful.
I do agree that handgun training can be worthwhile. Assault rifle training . . . not so much. In the military and police force, yes. For your everyday civilian, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1142 by marc9000, posted 03-30-2023 8:51 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1156 by marc9000, posted 04-01-2023 10:30 PM Taq has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1375
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1150 of 1184 (909369)
04-01-2023 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1138 by Theodoric
03-30-2023 8:12 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
marc9000 writes:
Argument from Authority
You might want to learn what that fallacy actually means. Cuz, it doesn't mean what you think it means.
Haha, show me what you think it means and then we''ll discuss it. (or are you trying to pull me off-topic so I can get "flagged"?
marc9000 writes:
Musk's takeover, Twitter files, show that he lied under oath.
Provide the facts to back this claim.
Jack Dorsey told Congress under oath Twitter was not shadow-banning
quote:
“On its face, Dorsey has vulnerability after the latest release. Dorsey was repeatedly asked about censoring and shadow banning, which has now been confirmed in these files.” George Washington University Law Professor Jonathan Turley told The Post.
“The greatest defense for Dorsey may be found in the Justice Department itself. Any prosecution of Twitter executives could prove a hard sell for Attorney General Merrick Garland, whose department has been repeatedly accused of pronounced political bias.”
You never heard this?? Of course not, you're a fan of the mainstream media. Millions of mainstream media fans have no idea how much actual news is hidden from them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1138 by Theodoric, posted 03-30-2023 8:12 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1152 by Theodoric, posted 04-01-2023 10:02 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1375
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1151 of 1184 (909370)
04-01-2023 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1147 by Percy
03-31-2023 9:58 AM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
What are you imagining that a better armed citizenry would have done about 9/11?
I'm not imagining a better armed citizenry. I'm imagining a much worse armed citizenry, one that would have made 9/11 worse, and made planning for it much easier for the terrorists. They had to get in the country and on those planes without knowing who could be armed. They planned it well, an armed citizenry can't prevent all terrorism obviously. But it can be a deterrent in some cases.
How are you defining "wide open southern border"?
More illegal immigration, more illegal drugs crossing it than ever before in U.S. history.
What are you imagining that a well armed citizenry could do about chemical and biological weapons?
For any ground invaders of the U.S., for introduction of any kind of attack or terrorism, being more unsure about just who is armed is going to be a deterrent for many things they would need to do. LIke move around within U.S. bordrs, eat, sleep, etc.
Fighting these kinds of surreptitious attacks is more the realm of the CIA and other national security organizations than the military.
Preventing them yes, dealing with them after they're underway, not so much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1147 by Percy, posted 03-31-2023 9:58 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1155 by xongsmith, posted 04-01-2023 10:22 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 1161 by Percy, posted 04-02-2023 8:18 AM marc9000 has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8495
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1152 of 1184 (909373)
04-01-2023 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1150 by marc9000
04-01-2023 9:06 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
So you don't know what it means.
But the Twitter files do not provide any evidence to the contrary to show that anything like this was politically biased Also, do you not believe in free enterprise and capitalism?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1150 by marc9000, posted 04-01-2023 9:06 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1154 by marc9000, posted 04-01-2023 10:21 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1375
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1153 of 1184 (909374)
04-01-2023 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1148 by Percy
03-31-2023 10:20 AM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
The point was that the article communicated a false impression. That post was not "flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed." Facebook merely says, "Sorry, this content isn't available right now." Anyone who thinks they know why it's unavailable is engaging in speculation.
In spite of all the evidence that Zuckerberg and Dorsey lean left politically? Pretty logical speculation.
But if the content was actually "false news and misinformation" then I'm glad Facebook isn't making it available.
It was about speculation of what the Japanese did or didn't do during WW2. Not possible to label any opinion on what Japan "would have done" as absolutely false or true.
There is an uneven balance between those on the political left versus those on the right, concerning censorship. The left showed clear approval of Trump being banned from Twitter, other conservatives banned from Twitter. Conservatives banned from speaking at college campuses, etc. We never hear much about conservatives attempting to censor liberals. And some of them say really dangerous, stupid things sometimes. Conservatives tend to trust public judgement of what they're hearing better than liberals do.
I'm against censorship, but I'm also against the media repeating what they know to be misstatements of fact using the excuse that they're merely reporting what was said or claimed.
That's exactly what the mainstream media did when they reported that a policeman was beaten to death by a fire extinguisher by Trump supporters. That was a pure lie, a far cry from an opinion about a Japanese action during WW2.
A multi-million dollar investigation showed the mainstream media's lie was reported as fact, month after month before, that there was Trump-Russian collusion during the 2016 election. Much more evidence that was a lie, than conservative opinion that the 2020 election was stolen.
For an invasion? No. An armed citizenry might serve as the foundational basis for a resistance should an invasion prove successful.
AGREED!! And a resistance could be very important, and save a lot of lives, and possibly save the nation. Much more important than an emotional "do something, anything" to step-by-step weaken the second amendment because of the actions of a tiny percentage of mentally ill people. I'm not the only one who believes news media sensationalism encourages mass shootings much more than the 250 year long availability of guns in the U.S.
Why are you imagining an Afghanistan invasion? Do they even have a Navy?
I don't know, but they have much more U.S. military equipment now than they had when Bin-Laden planned 9/11 from that country. And since Bin-Laden became fish food, it's reasonable to surmise that they probably have more hate for the U.S. now than they did in 2001.
I'm sorry, Marc, but to me you seem way out there. Conspiracy theories seem to have much greater appeal to you than reality.
Conspiracy theories go both ways of course. (Trump-Russian collusion?) Seems like if a conservative calls attention to something, it's a conspiracy theory, and when a liberal does, he's a "whistleblower".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1148 by Percy, posted 03-31-2023 10:20 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1162 by Percy, posted 04-02-2023 9:40 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1375
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1154 of 1184 (909375)
04-01-2023 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1152 by Theodoric
04-01-2023 10:02 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
So you don't know what it means.
I do, you don't. "Authority" is valid concerning facts, like "no evidence for Trump-Russion collusion". It's not valid for OPINION, like what the Japanese reasons were for doing what they did generations ago.
But the Twitter files do not provide any evidence to the contrary to show that anything like this was politically biased
So he couldn't have been politically biased, he just lied for fun? (I love this place)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1152 by Theodoric, posted 04-01-2023 10:02 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2508
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 1155 of 1184 (909376)
04-01-2023 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1151 by marc9000
04-01-2023 9:27 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
m9k writes:
They had to get in the country and on those planes without knowing who could be armed.
Guns on planes!! Guns on planes!!
LOL how stupid...
more:
More illegal immigration, more illegal drugs crossing it than ever before in U.S. history.
...so the actual people who LIVE THERE and are interviewed AT THE BORDER are all lying when they say nothing is happening...what a sack of shit for you to say. you should find another group to disgorge your rectal vomits into instead of here, in Percy's fine group. If you want to smear shit on the walls, maybe you should storm the Capital instead.
Preventing them yes, dealing with them after they're underway, not so much.
You must mean like the Clinton administration did, warning Dubbya about Osama and 9/11. And the military, after they're underway and IN THE AIR?
OMG Rocket launchers on planes!!! Rocket launchers!!! On planes!!!
Loolz!!

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1151 by marc9000, posted 04-01-2023 9:27 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1158 by marc9000, posted 04-01-2023 10:53 PM xongsmith has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1375
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


(1)
Message 1156 of 1184 (909377)
04-01-2023 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1149 by Taq
03-31-2023 4:11 PM


Re: What Damage an AR-15 Can Do
So you think people should be allowed to take assault rifles onto planes???
I said "gun", not "assault rifle". A concealed handgun could have proven useful.
I do agree that handgun training can be worthwhile. Assault rifle training . . . not so much. In the military and police force, yes. For your everyday civilian, no.
A reasonable opinion. But this recent shooter, was described as having both a "handgun", and an "assault pistol". I assume round capacity is what separates the classifications. Could an assault rifle ban be a stepping stone to next go after "assault pistols" as well? Leaving the general public with only "handguns"? Leaving others with stronger opinions than you to get the handguns as a final step to a total second amendment repeal? Would you feel slightly responsible for a total second amendment repeal?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1149 by Taq, posted 03-31-2023 4:11 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1157 by xongsmith, posted 04-01-2023 10:44 PM marc9000 has replied

  
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