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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1314
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1022 of 1110 (895229)
06-16-2022 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1020 by vimesey
06-16-2022 6:04 AM


Re: Biden's speech
You'd better jump in there and dance for him!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1020 by vimesey, posted 06-16-2022 6:04 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1023 by vimesey, posted 06-16-2022 6:49 AM marc9000 has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1332
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(4)
Message 1023 of 1110 (895230)
06-16-2022 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1022 by marc9000
06-16-2022 6:16 AM


Re: Biden's speech
I'd rather remind people what Primo Levi, a Nazi Holocaust survivor said, after his liberation from the Nazi death camps. It's written in very large letters just inside the entrance to the Holocaust memorial and museum in Berlin, and has stayed with me ever since I visited there.
We must be listened to: above and beyond our personal experience, we have collectively witnessed a fundamental unexpected event, fundamental precisely because unexpected, not foreseen by anyone. It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1022 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 6:16 AM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1027 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 9:57 PM vimesey has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19784
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 1024 of 1110 (895231)
06-16-2022 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1018 by marc9000
06-14-2022 8:31 PM


Re: Biden's speech
marc9000 writes:
Just like law abiding citizens with guns are your favorite whipping boy?
My favorite whipping boys are idiots. Gun nuts and conservatives tend to fit into that category. It also includes anti-science nuts, religious nuts, etc. Plenty of whips for all of you.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1018 by marc9000, posted 06-14-2022 8:31 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2245
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


(3)
Message 1025 of 1110 (895237)
06-16-2022 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1021 by marc9000
06-16-2022 6:15 AM


Re: Biden's speech
that is one man's list. a conspiracy must involve at least another person.
so no, none. i thought so.
- nate

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1021 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 6:15 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6837
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(3)
Message 1026 of 1110 (895238)
06-16-2022 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1021 by marc9000
06-16-2022 6:15 AM


Re: Biden's speech
As usual with most things in this society marc9000 apparently does not know what a conspiracy theory is.
You were asked to find one left-wing conspiracy and instead you present us with a list of truisms about Trumps failings as president.
You shot your whole argument in the head. Again.
It's alright. On the left, what you would consider some underground clandestine effort to stop republicans, are in fact open concerted efforts. No conspiracy needed.
How can you function in society with such an extreme lack of intellect?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1021 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 6:15 AM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1028 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 10:04 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1314
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1027 of 1110 (895239)
06-16-2022 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1023 by vimesey
06-16-2022 6:49 AM


Re: Biden's speech
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
That's EXACTLY what Christians have been asking the scientific community for 163 years. (It's been 163 years, since the atheist bible, Origin of Species, came out.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1023 by vimesey, posted 06-16-2022 6:49 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1029 by xongsmith, posted 06-16-2022 10:16 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 1031 by vimesey, posted 06-17-2022 1:23 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1314
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1028 of 1110 (895240)
06-16-2022 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1026 by AZPaul3
06-16-2022 3:05 PM


Re: Biden's speech
How can you function in society with such an extreme lack of intellect?
It's hard. It's lonely being just about the only American who didn't fall in passionate love with Biden when he closed the Keystone Pipeline. Or gave the Taliban the entire country of Afghanistan, plus millions of dollars worth of U.S. weaponry. Closing the pipeline had absolutely nothing to do with todays diesel and gasoline prices, and subsequent inflation, an intellectual here told me that, can't remember which one. And I believed him!!!! I'm really going to be embarrassed this coming November after the elections.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1026 by AZPaul3, posted 06-16-2022 3:05 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1030 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-17-2022 12:31 AM marc9000 has replied
 Message 1034 by AZPaul3, posted 06-17-2022 11:01 PM marc9000 has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2245
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 1029 of 1110 (895241)
06-16-2022 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1027 by marc9000
06-16-2022 9:57 PM


Re: Marc9k's speech
Marc9k, admonished in one place, switches gears and blubs out:
That's EXACTLY what Christians have been asking the scientific community for 163 years. (It's been 163 years, since the atheist bible, Origin of Species, came out.)
Lol. "the atheist bible"...
Well, why are they still stupidly asking that? this isn't rocket science. Vimesey's sig line is a far more subtle thought than any religion has ever come up with.
Most of the questions i've seen reveal an abject stupidity in the question that would be better left in the mouth rather than letting the world see how dumb it is.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1027 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 9:57 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3438
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 1030 of 1110 (895242)
06-17-2022 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1028 by marc9000
06-16-2022 10:04 PM


Re: Biden's speech
Or gave the Taliban the entire country of Afghanistan
I realize we spent trillions of dollars and 20 years fighting in Afghanistan, but I guess you didn't realize that the United States doesn't own it, so we couldn't "give" it to anyone. And that's exactly the same thing your asshole wanted to do with it, but with no preparation or planning at all.
Closing the pipeline had absolutely nothing to do with todays diesel and gasoline prices, and subsequent inflation
How could it, considering that it was going to carry Canadian oil owned by Canadian companies, headed to the Golf of Mexico to be loaded on tankers and shipped to none U.S. Canadian costumers? And it would not be carrying oil by now anyway.
I'm really going to be embarrassed this coming November after the elections.
I don't believe anything will ever embarrass you.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1028 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 10:04 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1036 by marc9000, posted 06-18-2022 10:00 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1332
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 1031 of 1110 (895243)
06-17-2022 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1027 by marc9000
06-16-2022 9:57 PM


Re: Biden's speech
That's EXACTLY what Christians have been asking the scientific community for 163 years.
Of course you have. It's so you can keep your followers ignorant, under your control and feeling that they are "special", so you can carry on lining your pockets from them.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1027 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 9:57 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 1032 of 1110 (895244)
06-17-2022 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1018 by marc9000
06-14-2022 8:31 PM


Re: Biden's speech
marc9000 writes:
The reality is that the media is your favorite whipping boy. You've blamed them for innumerable things over the years.
Just like law abiding citizens with guns are your favorite whipping boy?
Why not just accuse me of being a communist? It would be just as irrelevant and inaccurate. If you have no defense for your years of insupportable accusations against the media, just say so.
you'll see that they broke away to anchors saying that what the president was saying was untrue.
Anchors make this decision, for a sitting president?
Probably producers and anchors and other high ranking staff in consultation together make these decisions. And yes, of course for a sitting president when he uses the airwaves to undermine democracy. It was known Trump was telling lies then, and he's still telling the same lies.
Did they ever chop off Obama, or Biden, for saying untrue things? (Democrat presidents never lie, do they?)
I have often said that politicians are all of the same breed. They possess similar qualities, it goes with wanting the job. Naturally some are better than others when it comes to honesty and integrity, but did any previous president, Republican or Democrat, ever lie in ways that threatened the foundation of democracy?
Do you think maybe controls, licensing and safety requirements should be put in place for guns the way they are for cars and dangerous substances/viruses/bacteria?
No because cars and other substances aren't mentioned in the Bill of Rights.
Nothing in the Bill of Rights is absolute. We've been over this. It's why you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theatre, despite the First Amendment. It's why gun control is constitutional, particularly for an amendment about guns in the context of militia. Even you are in favor of gun control when you advocate for red flag laws.
That means it isn't a question of whether guns should be subject to government control. Of course they should. Even you believe that. It's only a question of where one draws the line between who should own them and who shouldn't.
Just the opposite, actually. I feel sorry for anyone who has to give up something they love.
I'll take your word for that, but you're in the minority. Most gun controllers, "progressives" get their rocks off giving people orders and depriving them of their freedoms.
Governing, regardless of party, involves balancing conflicting freedoms. For a simple example, your freedom to extend your arm stops at my nose. How would you balance someone's right to be safe in their own home or church or shopping mall against someone else's right to own a gun?
Would requiring that the gun be registered, the zoo worker be licensed, and the gun have additional safety features have prevented the saving of the child?
Yes, because there would have been NO GUN! When the zoo worker would have approached the gun permit czar, he would have been asked "What do you need a gun at a zoo for? These are tame animals in captivity. PERMIT DENIED!" Government agents are often not near as good at knowing what the general public needs as well as the general public does.
Now you're just employing scare tactics. Quality gun control would involve registration of firearms, licensing of firearm owners, and hopefully safety improvements to the firearms themselves.
The more government requirements there are for skilled marksmen, the fewer skilled marksmen there are going to be.
Uh, okay, possibly. So?
The zoo would have called the police, and everyone would have watched the child slowly die before the police got there.
I think we need laws that benefit the most people (i.e., result in the fewest firearm related deaths), not that address one-of events that pull at the heart strings.
Yes, Marc, that's what we've all been doing in this thread is questioning the skill of marksmen.
No, you've been mocking the "magical" craziness of gun nuts.
I see you chopped the alert to your sarcasm detecter off what you quoted. Anyway, what I've actually said about gun nuts is that they're in love with guns. The guns have an almost mystical power over them that allows them, and you're a good example, to simply deny or ignore all the evidence of their danger and the damage they're doing to our society.
Let's say I'm totally ignorant "of what the general public knows or does not know." Why do you think that's important or relevant?
That you have to ask that, makes it clear that you have no appreciation of the freedoms you enjoy in the U.S.
Why can't you explain why you thought that point relevant or important? Is it because you're talking through your hat again? To repeat the question, how is my familiarity with what the general public knows relevant or meaningful? Giving no response and just claiming it's obvious is an undeniable deflection that raises serious doubts about whether you have an actual point.
You are really fixated on Hunter Biden.
Because THAT is how the election was stolen.
Really? And yet you can't even find the poll data supporting your claim that people care about Hunter Biden. And Trump and all his supporters say it was the Dominion voting machines and illegals voting and dead people voting and ballot stuffing and scads of fake mail-in ballots.
The cover-up by the mainstream news and big tech of the unprecedented corruption that went on during the 8 years of the Biden vice presidency was the tipping point that got him elected.
Now you're just echoing false claims from the New York Post (Murdoch Corporation) and the Washington Times (Sun Myung Moon and the Unification Church) and other conservative media that have little interest in truth and accuracy.
But you seem to see conspiracies built upon fantasies lurking around every corner.
It goes equally both ways. I'm just a little surprised that the left constantly accuses the right of conspiracy theories, while promoting so many of their own.
Let's keep the discussion anchored in reality. No one besides you is promoting conspiracy theories, including where you accuse others of promoting conspiracy theories.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1018 by marc9000, posted 06-14-2022 8:31 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1037 by marc9000, posted 06-18-2022 10:57 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 1033 of 1110 (895245)
06-17-2022 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1021 by marc9000
06-16-2022 6:15 AM


Re: Biden's speech
marc9000 writes:
Can you name one? Just one?
Why no, you got me, it would be like trying to eat one Lay's potato chip!
Why should I write them all down?
The A to Z of Things Trump Could and Should Have Been Impeached For
There are tons more, you and your green dot providers should try a simple search.
Boy are you confused. That list was by one guy, and it isn't a list of conspiracy theories. It's a list of things Trump actually did.
Anyway, you can't take some random list of things written about Trump by one guy at his own website and accuse everyone else of believing them. I never heard of Mehdi Hasan before or his website. The question you need to answer is, "What are the premiere conspiracy theories about Trump promoted in quality left-leaning news media like the New York Times and Washington Post?"
But I think you're drifting off-topic. This thread's about gun control.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1021 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 6:15 AM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1038 by marc9000, posted 06-18-2022 11:02 PM Percy has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6837
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 1034 of 1110 (895251)
06-17-2022 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1028 by marc9000
06-16-2022 10:04 PM


Re: Biden's speech
It's lonely being just about the only American who didn't fall in passionate love with Biden when he closed the Keystone Pipeline.
Didn’t close any pipeline. Stopped construction on an extension of Keystone. Stopped construction. You do tend to think well behind the times.
Or gave the Taliban the entire country of Afghanistan
It wasn’t his to give. It always belonged to the Taliban. Still swallowing that colonialist, white-christian-knows-best bullshit. You really are behind the times.
plus millions of dollars worth of U.S. weaponry.
There’s a hell of a lot more where that came from. The USofA can’t walk through a peaceful park without leaving billions in junk behind. Were you thinking that would have funded your pension? Stupid American. That’s only for foreigners and the arms makers.
Have you seen what we’ve already done to Mars? And, unlike Afghanistan, we went there to look for life not to kill it.
Closing the pipeline had absolutely nothing to do with todays diesel and gasoline prices, and subsequent inflation, an intellectual here told me that, can't remember which one. And I believed him!!!!
As well you should believe him. That pipeline construction extension wasn’t productive. It wasn’t carrying any oil. It was still under construction. It’s untightened nuts and bolts have not the slightest effect on today's fuel prices. What a dunce.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1028 by marc9000, posted 06-16-2022 10:04 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1039 by marc9000, posted 06-18-2022 11:11 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20988
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 1035 of 1110 (895253)
06-18-2022 9:03 AM


A Reminder of Danger of Guns to Their Owners and Those Around Them
This is from the New York Times article Gun Sellers’ Message to Americans: Man Up about the success the gun industry has had marketing into "fear, machismo and defiance." It paints a pretty grim picture. The only positive is this quote:
quote
Nick Suplina, a senior vice president at Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun control group with a membership of around 1000 current and former mayors, said gun rights advocates tended to ignore data showing that firearms in homes often wound up hurting their owners instead of someone threatening them.
“While selling you this notion that a gun may provide security for yourself and your family, which is very appealing, they don’t tell you that owning a gun makes it two times more likely that somebody in the house will die of gun homicide or three times the likelihood they die by gun suicide,” he said.
But this message has no resonance. As we approach total gun saturation the number of shootings, both the one's and two's and the mass shootings, will increase. The evidence that guns don't increase safety is all around us but is widely ignored.
--Percy

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1314
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 1036 of 1110 (895265)
06-18-2022 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1030 by Tanypteryx
06-17-2022 12:31 AM


Re: Biden's speech
marc9000 writes:
[sarcasm]Closing the pipeline had absolutely nothing to do with todays diesel and gasoline prices, and subsequent inflation[/sarcasm]

How could it, considering that it was going to carry Canadian oil owned by Canadian companies, headed to the Golf of Mexico to be loaded on tankers and shipped to none U.S. Canadian costumers? And it would not be carrying oil by now anyway.
There is a worldwide shortage and price spike of oil. Any blockage of transportation or production from ANY one place to ANY other place in the world is going is going to cause an increase in scarcity and price. In oil or any product. I know you could never understand it, few posters here could, I'm surprised you only got 2 green dots.
If it was not carrying oil by now if not closed down, it would be a lot CLOSER to being ready by now if it wasn't closed down. It's distribution possibilities could have been PLANNED ON - part of the reason oil prices are high now is because of uncertainty in future production and transportation. Especially with the additional things Biden did to undo Trump's energy policies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1030 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-17-2022 12:31 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1041 by Percy, posted 06-19-2022 10:16 AM marc9000 has replied
 Message 1043 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-19-2022 10:58 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
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