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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 917 of 1184 (894744)
05-27-2022 8:07 PM


Don't Expect Much
Thoughts and prayers all around. I’m being callus.
Kids and teachers died but the armed cops outside did nothing for an hour. Gun culture at its finest.
I’m sorry but after the initial tears this whole issue is sickeningly dead to me. Like climate change. We know what we need to do but the politics of stupidity blocks the road at every turn.
With both guns and climate we are not going to do anything except die. We are a sick society and Christianity and their fellow right-wing republican cohorts are the disease.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 918 by Phat, posted 05-28-2022 2:41 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 920 by Percy, posted 05-28-2022 8:41 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 918 of 1184 (894745)
05-28-2022 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 917 by AZPaul3
05-27-2022 8:07 PM


Re: Don't Expect Much
AZ writes:
We are a sick society and Christianity and their fellow right-wing republican cohorts are the disease.
What about Left Wing Christians? Are they too evil?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 917 by AZPaul3, posted 05-27-2022 8:07 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 919 by AZPaul3, posted 05-28-2022 2:45 AM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 919 of 1184 (894746)
05-28-2022 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 918 by Phat
05-28-2022 2:41 AM


Re: Don't Expect Much
Did I divide christianity?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 918 by Phat, posted 05-28-2022 2:41 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 920 of 1184 (894750)
05-28-2022 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 917 by AZPaul3
05-27-2022 8:07 PM


Re: Don't Expect Much
It's kind of ironic that the guys with the guns who are fond of saying that, "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with gun," and that, "We need more good guys with guns in order to be safe," were too afraid to confront a bad guy with a gun.
We'll have a gun problem in this country for as long as people believe that guns make you safer.
What makes gun mythology so impossible to counter is this train of thought that has probably gone through most peoples' minds at some time in their life, whether for or against guns: "Oh my God, what's that sound? Is someone breaking in? This is America, he could have a gun. Why, oh why, didn't I buy a gun. If I get through this, tomorrow I'm going down to Walmart and buying a gun."
If they follow through, now they think that gun in their nightstand makes them safer. The statistics showing that it places them at greater risk will be ignored because they have none of the drama and terror of the fear of attack.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 917 by AZPaul3, posted 05-27-2022 8:07 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 921 by ringo, posted 05-28-2022 12:41 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 921 of 1184 (894756)
05-28-2022 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 920 by Percy
05-28-2022 8:41 AM


Re: Don't Expect Much
"Oh my God, what's that sound? Is someone breaking in? This is America, he could have a gun. Why, oh why, didn't I buy a gun. If I get through this, tomorrow I'm going down to Walmart and buying a gun."
In Canada, if somebody tries to break in while I'm home, I'm going to beat him to death with my cane and roll his bloody corpse down the stairs. Tomorrow I might have to buy a new cane.
(Full dislusure: It was my dad's cane. He used it only for the last year or so of his life. When he died at 85 in 1997, one of the neighbours suggested I should keep his cane. So far, I've only used if for planning to kill burglars.)
(It has a nice retractable ice-spike on the end, so....)

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 920 by Percy, posted 05-28-2022 8:41 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


(2)
Message 922 of 1184 (894785)
05-29-2022 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 916 by dronestar
05-27-2022 4:11 PM


Re: Gun Control III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, XI, XII, . . .
Guns will be banned during Donald Trump's speech at the NRA conference
But... why? The NRA-people are all good guys with multiple guns. What could possibly go wrong?
Seriously, how is it that the US is not able to solve this problem? It is supposed to be "the country of unlimited possibilities". I can only conclude that that phrase no longer holds. And then, how is it that the "United" States is not united in its resolve to cure its insatiable addiction to guns? I can only conclude that its name, as well as its motto, "E pluribus unum", no longer hold. Finally, how is it that for so long, and for so many, the "American Dream" has turned out to be a horrifying nightmare? I can only conclude that that phrase also no longer holds.
How can Americans still feel even a smidgen of pride for what is now perceived by many across the globe as something close to a failed state?

Edited by Parasomnium, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 916 by dronestar, posted 05-27-2022 4:11 PM dronestar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 923 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2022 7:53 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 923 of 1184 (894789)
05-29-2022 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 922 by Parasomnium
05-29-2022 6:25 PM


American Shame
How can Americans still feel even a smidgen of pride ...
It’s hard. And gets harder every day. This is not the society my upbringing promised. We have fallen so far short of what I was expecting, hoping and voting for all my life.
My time in Vietnam showed me how corrupt politics and politicians can be but I never doubted the society. I was confident we upstarts could make the war stop and, god bless America, we did. That confidence in American society can no longer be sustained. We are, not just letting, we are encouraging the fascist right to arise again. And we are sacrificing our rights and our children’s future to the greed and the stupidity of the religious right.
God forbid we suffer again the ravages of Trump but I’m afraid the anti-American Evangelical Republican right, fresh from their long sought victory taking over the Supreme Court, are going to be running this country for quite some time. It will take decades to reverse the voting restrictions the Republicans have put in place. Then we can consider human rights, gun control, climate change, health care and all those other things modern societies should expect from a humane government.
But, right now, we are a fractured broken society and the future is not bright.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 922 by Parasomnium, posted 05-29-2022 6:25 PM Parasomnium has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 925 by Percy, posted 06-03-2022 9:59 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 924 of 1184 (894936)
06-03-2022 8:26 AM


Biden's speech
It's always the same after every mass shooting, this time, ramped up more than ever before. Today, tomorrow, next week, before new gun control laws are passed, gun sales will set new records, and there will be more guns in the U.S. than ever before. This is how we say "ENUF!"??
It would be nice to try something different, that should be obvious to everyone, but we can't. The ratings seeking, profit mad, shooting recruiting news media won't allow discussions of it.

Replies to this message:
 Message 926 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 11:54 AM marc9000 has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 925 of 1184 (894941)
06-03-2022 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 923 by AZPaul3
05-29-2022 7:53 PM


Re: American Shame
The US is the most powerful country in the world militarily, economically and intellectually because it is big, populous, has enormous natural resources, attracts talent, and has a stable government (though that last is now somewhat in doubt).
But our people are no different, no better or worse, than people everywhere. If we think the US is what it is because it has the best people in the world then we are sorely mistaken.
In fact, one could argue the opposite, that we have the worst people in the world and overcome it only through our wealth and power. That gun mania has taken over so much of the country at the same time that guns are wreaking havoc at record levels is a mark of shame, but only a portion of us are ashamed. Many are proud of our self-reliant attitude that makes guns a centerpiece of our pride. Many still believe the solution to the gun problem is more guns and making it easier to get guns while turning public places into fortresses. Many still believe that the answer to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun while ignoring that no good guy with a gun appeared on the scene to halt any mass shooting. Many are unaware that the majority of murders are committed by supposed good guys on people they know.
Vietnam did teach us yet again how corrupt out politicians can be. I forget the timeline of when what became known. Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense under Johnson, might have been a primary culprit, enough time has passed that my memory of which names go with which misdeeds have faded, but anyway, there was a great deal of lying to the American people about progress in the war and the chances of an outcome favorable to ourselves.
I don't see why we should believe that anything's changed. In my mind, Biden is not my guy, and I don't trust him any more than any politician. He's just the guy who was better than Trump. We're still being lied to, we just don't know about what yet. For instance, what are we really doing with regard to Ukraine? Some things they're not telling us because it is actually true that making the information public would compromise those efforts. But other things they're not telling us because they know the American people would not support them if they knew.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 923 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2022 7:53 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 926 of 1184 (894944)
06-03-2022 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 924 by marc9000
06-03-2022 8:26 AM


Re: Biden's speech
marc9000 writes:
The ratings seeking, profit mad, shooting recruiting news media ....
quote
"When a dog bites a man, that is not news, because it happens so often. But if a man bites a dog, that is news." -- New York Sun editor John B. Bogart
Mass shootings in the US happen so often that it isn't news. They shouldn't even be mentioned in the news. Maybe a running body count a couple of times a year.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 924 by marc9000, posted 06-03-2022 8:26 AM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 927 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2022 7:57 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 928 by marc9000, posted 06-05-2022 3:27 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 927 of 1184 (894990)
06-04-2022 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 926 by ringo
06-03-2022 11:54 AM


Re: Biden's speech
Maybe a running body count a couple of times a year.
Ouch.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 926 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 11:54 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 928 of 1184 (894997)
06-05-2022 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 926 by ringo
06-03-2022 11:54 AM


Re: Biden's speech
Mass shootings in the US happen so often that it isn't news. They shouldn't even be mentioned in the news. Maybe a running body count a couple of times a year.
All of the recent shootings today are COPYCAT shootings. They don't come up with the idea to do it on their own, they're inspired by the publicity of past shootings. If news was only reported, and not sensationalized, there would be far fewer senseless mass shootings.
"The media loves mass shootings", is a phrase that's been stated more than once, and there's evidence for it. One example; David Muir, ABC's weekday evening news anchor, (off on weekends) always seems glad to interrupt his weekends and bolt to the scene when there's a shooting on Friday or Saturday, to shove microphones in the faces of grieving friends / relatives and ask them how they feel, usually indirectly about how they feel about the second amendment and white Republicans. If he's so sad, why doesn't he just stay home and let the weekend reporters do that job?
It's often said that the U.S. founders couldn't imagine any weapon beyond the muskets of their day. That's true, but they also couldn't imagine the circus that's today's news media. Muir gets "between $5 and $7 million per year" in salary. Chris Cuomo got $6 million per year, before he was fired by CNN for his lies and corruption. The $6 million per year figure seems to be pretty common for popular news anchors and commentators, I'm sure it is at Fox News as well. Their lavish newsrooms / desks couldn't be more elaborate. Is this what the founders had in mind? It's a stretch of course to say that they "recruit" school shootings, but they don't seem to be concerned with the possibility of contributing to them. They'll say "we're just filling a free market demand, people have their morbid sense of curiosity about these things. That's what tobacco companies said, "people willingly buy our product - not our fault if they get cancer.
Who can tell what goes on the minds of mass shooters, but it can't hurt their ego when the news media points fingers at others besides the shooter, "The teacher left a door unlocked!!!! The police didn't respond correctly!!! The school wasn't fortified enough!!! The public has too many guns!!!!"
The news media is out for ratings, and profits, concern about any inspiration they have for future shootings comes in a distant second. Tobacco products have always been excise TAXED, how about a windfall profits tax on the news media everytime there is a mass shooting? It would be complicated to implement, but it would be possible. They could obviously afford it. Or maybe the networks themselves, maybe trim Muir's salary down to a paltry $5 million a year, he should be able to survive on that, and tell him to STAY HOME whenever there's a mass shooting? Biden delights in saying over and over that the second amendment is not absolute, another Democrat politician recently said the Supreme Courts has stated many times that the second amendment is not absolute. I wonder if the Supreme Court has ever said anything similar about the First Amendment? I guess we'll never know, the news media is in charge of public discussion, and everyone from Sean Hannity to Rachel Maddow and everyone in between won't discuss it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 926 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 11:54 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 929 by Tangle, posted 06-05-2022 4:05 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 930 by AZPaul3, posted 06-05-2022 4:17 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 938 by Percy, posted 06-06-2022 8:07 AM marc9000 has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 929 of 1184 (894999)
06-05-2022 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 928 by marc9000
06-05-2022 3:27 PM


Re: Biden's speech
Marc writes:
All of the recent shootings today are COPYCAT shootings. They don't come up with the idea to do it on their own,
Thank god for that, for a moment I thought you guys had a problem.
If news was only reported, and not sensationalized, there would be far fewer senseless mass shootings.
In what warped world is the reporting of a mass murder not sensational?

Edited by Admin, : Correct typo: "It what world" => "In what world"


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 928 by marc9000, posted 06-05-2022 3:27 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 931 by marc9000, posted 06-05-2022 8:28 PM Tangle has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 930 of 1184 (895000)
06-05-2022 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 928 by marc9000
06-05-2022 3:27 PM


Re: Biden's speech
Smoke and mirrors to cover the real issue. There are too many guns in this society and they need to be curbed hard.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 928 by marc9000, posted 06-05-2022 3:27 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 932 by marc9000, posted 06-05-2022 8:30 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 931 of 1184 (895006)
06-05-2022 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 929 by Tangle
06-05-2022 4:05 PM


Re: Biden's speech
It what warped world is the reporting of a mass murder not sensational?
In plane crashes, bus crashes, weather disasters, Andrew Cuomo's nursing home deaths, many other things, often with far more than 21 deaths, mainstream evening news reports don't continue to harp on it for weeks after the event, showing pictures of victims, interviews with survivors, videos of funerals, lists of dreams the dead victims had, political demands to grow the government.
There is a difference between sensationalizing and reporting. Gossiping and reporting. Pictures of the shooter, the smallest details of unlocked doors and police responses, do nothing but cause trouble when constantly shoved in the faces of the general public. Those kinds of things should be investigated privately. If the news media wasn't recruiting more shootings of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 929 by Tangle, posted 06-05-2022 4:05 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 935 by Tangle, posted 06-06-2022 3:23 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
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