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Author Topic:   The Sudden Dawn of the Cosmos and the Constancy of Physical Laws
ringo
Member (Idle past 388 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 21 of 244 (822006)
10-17-2017 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
10-16-2017 1:46 PM


Phat writes:
If we approach the question as theologians, we can easily say that God works in mysterious ways...
If God works in mysterious ways, we have no way of understanding what He's doing. He could change the laws of physics at any time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 10-16-2017 1:46 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 10-17-2017 4:11 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 388 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 29 of 244 (822070)
10-18-2017 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
10-17-2017 4:11 PM


Re: Predictable Behavior?
Phat writes:
Yellowstone could blow up, too. The chance of that happening is likely greater than the laws of Physics changing.
What's your point? I said that if God works in mysterious ways, there's no way for us to tell when His ways will change. If God works in mysterious ways, "communion" with Him has no value because He might change His mind tomorrow.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 10-18-2017 4:17 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 388 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 244 (888162)
09-07-2021 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Christian7
09-06-2021 11:39 AM


Re: Actual Big Bang Theory
Gospel Preacher writes:
Therefore, it must have been made by a faithful God, one who upheld it for thousands of years.
Billions of years.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 44 by AZPaul3, posted 09-07-2021 3:40 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 388 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 59 of 244 (888362)
09-16-2021 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Christian7
09-15-2021 8:04 AM


Re: Actual Big Bang Theory
Christian777 writes:
Thererefore science is not a dependable thing.
That's an odd conclusion. One of the central characteristics of science is that it IS dependable. We throw out the bits that don't work - like alchemy, astrology and young-earth creationism. If science wasn't dependable, we couldn't get to the moon and back; we couldn't generate power from nuclear fission; we couldn't even have cars powered by exploding hydrocarbons.
Science does work.
So your conclusion is obviously wrong, like concluding that bumblebees can't fly.
There must be some flaw in your logic. Maybe all your if if if if ifs aren't true?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Christian7, posted 09-15-2021 8:04 AM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Christian7, posted 09-16-2021 6:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 388 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 214 of 244 (888537)
09-20-2021 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Christian7
09-16-2021 6:14 PM


Re: Actual Big Bang Theory
Christian7 writes:
Is not science dependable, in so far as it is done properly, because it draws right conclusions concerning the physical world, which, for some reason, continues from the beginning and still continues, according the the Laws that govern it?
Sure.
Christian7 writes:
But, by what power, or by what governor, do these laws subsist?
It doesn't matter. Whether your car is gasoline or electric, you drive it the same.
Christian7 writes:
Is it not God, who said that Jesus is "upholding all things by the word of his power."
It doesn't matter. It could be Quetzalcoatl or it could be Zeus. What matters is the laws themselves. As long as we know WHAT they are, we don't need to know "where they came from".
Christian7 writes:
If it is not God, then by what or under what does the universe subsist, in which or in whom you can trust?
You have it backwards. If the laws were created by an all-powerful God, what's to prevent him from changing the laws at his whim? How could we trust them?
Christian7 writes:
And if you trust in it, then you trust not in science anymore, but have faith in that thing or being which causes the universe to move.
No. We can NOT trust in a God who was the power to arbitrarily change the laws. We trust the laws themselves only because we do not observe them changing. Ifr they did change, we would change our use of them.
Christian7 writes:
And if nothing causes the universe to move, but the universe moves itself, then you trust in the universe, and have faith in it.
No. We do NOT have "faith" in the universe. We only react to what we see it doing. If its behavior changed, we would change our reaction. We have no more "faith" in it than we have in the direction that a baseball will bounce on the field. We can only react to what it actually DOES.
Christian7 writes:
Without trust their is no certainty. And without certainty there is no knowledge. For knowledge is certainty of truth.
See above. You can NOT be certain of a God who has the power to change "the truth".

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

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