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Author Topic:   The Sudden Dawn of the Cosmos and the Constancy of Physical Laws
Phat
Member
Posts: 18168
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 244 (821966)
10-16-2017 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Christian7
10-15-2017 11:44 PM


This is an honest question that has several scientific explanations and fewer sound theological ones, though many theologians simply dont worry about such things. They may say something along the lines of "God surely must have created all of the laws of physics" or something like that. I did a google search and found some interesting responses.
quote:
At a singularity, all the laws of physics would have broken down. This means that the state of the universe, after the Big Bang, will not depend on anything that may have happened before, because the deterministic laws that govern the universe will break down in the Big Bang.~Stephen Hawking
Did the laws of physics apply before the big bang? - Quora
These guys speculate that the universe may have looked like this early on:
If we approach the question as theologians, we can easily say that God works in mysterious ways...but we really have not thought about how He does it. Science seems more creative. Comments?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Christian7, posted 10-15-2017 11:44 PM Christian7 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 10-16-2017 4:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 10-17-2017 11:50 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18168
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 6 of 244 (821967)
10-16-2017 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Christian7
10-16-2017 9:31 AM


Re: Science or Theology ?
Guido writes:
Hey. I wish there was a category that could cover both. But I guess the topic should go wherever is most appropriate.
Out of curiosity, what have you been reading and studying lately. If I recall, you were only around 17 when you first came to EvC Forum...now you must be around 26-28. What have you been studying and learning the past ten years? Also what do you think about Intelligent Design? Does it appeal to you at all? As for me, I am fascinated by traditional science but I really dont know a whole lot about the method.
Guido writes:
For if the Laws of Physics were not always what they are now, there is no reason for us to be confident that they will always be. And therefore, there is no reason to believe that the universe will not suddenly vanish or change into an elephant. But if there is a Creator who established those Laws, then it makes sense that they should be constant.
lol. How do we know that the plan isnt to change up on us and turn the universe into an elephant? After all, be honest. Some have suggested turtles. Turtles All The Way Down
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Christian7, posted 10-16-2017 9:31 AM Christian7 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18168
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 15 of 244 (821988)
10-17-2017 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
10-16-2017 5:39 PM


The YAWN and the RESTLESS
jar writes:
The Laws of Physics are simply human creations and of course did not exist before humans created them fairly recently.
Before the Big Bang really is another one of those fun games but doesn't have much validity or use. But it was not an explosion or an object but rather simply the point where our current descriptions break down and stop making sense.
Dr.Stephen Hawking seemingly challenges your assumptions.
Stephen Hawking says universe not created by God
Physics, not creator, made Big Bang, new book claims
Professor had previously referred to 'mind of God'
In the new work, The Grand Design, Professor Stephen Hawking argues that the Big Bang, rather than occurring following the intervention of a divine being, was inevitable due to the law of gravity. (...)"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.
Doesnt this imply that the law of gravity existed before humans invented the words to call it a law and the experiments to verify the behavior?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 10-16-2017 5:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by PaulK, posted 10-17-2017 5:14 AM Phat has replied
 Message 17 by jar, posted 10-17-2017 7:36 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18168
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 244 (822001)
10-17-2017 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by PaulK
10-17-2017 5:14 AM


Re: The YAWN and the RESTLESS
But there's no reason to suppose that there is anything external making things behave that way.
One could argue that everything is basically internal. To me that borders of pantheism, if a spiritual label were attached. But even if not, to say that laws originate with humans is nearly tantamount to saying that anything--God, wisdom, laws, indeed reality itself originates with humans. Which in one sense is arguably true but in another sense obviously ludicrous.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by PaulK, posted 10-17-2017 5:14 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 10-17-2017 10:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 20 by PaulK, posted 10-17-2017 10:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18168
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 24 of 244 (822021)
10-17-2017 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
10-17-2017 11:50 AM


Predictable Behavior?
Yellowstone could blow up, too. The chance of that happening is likely greater than the laws of Physics changing.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 10-17-2017 11:50 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 10-17-2017 4:22 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 27 by RAZD, posted 10-17-2017 9:08 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 10-18-2017 3:24 PM Phat has not replied

  
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