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Author | Topic: Punctuated Equilibria: The Basics | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17874 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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The underlying concept of Punctuated Equilibria was to take ideas about speciation from current evolutionary theory and work what we should expect to see in the fossil record.
Mayr's ideas about allopathic speciation may be summed up as follows: A sub-population on the edge of a species' range is cut off. Without the stabilising effects of gene flow and with differing selective pressures this smaller population diverges quite rapidly, and becomes a new species. Speciation, then occurs in a relatively small area over a geologically short period of time. Gould proposed that it might only take centuries, perhaps somewhere in the region of 1000 years. If speciation occurs rapidly in a limited area we will only observe it in the fossil record if we have a very good record for that exact time and place (which is limited by our explorations, as well as by the limits of the record itself). While we have such records for some times and places they are more the exception than the rule. It follows from this that speciation events - and the fine intergraduations of form that should have existed - should be very rare in the fossil record. The original 1972 paper may be found here (scanned text, PDF format)
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3983 Joined: |
Thread copied here from the Punctuated Equilibria: The Basics thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17874 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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One of the controversial features of Punctuated Equilibria is that it was presented as being opposed to a Darwinian view. While it may have been opposed to a view of Darwin commonly held by Palaeontologists, it does not seem to be so different from Darwin's actual views
Quotes are from the 6th edition of On the Origin of Species which is easily found on the Internet, including Project Gutenberg.
With animals and plants that propagate rapidly and do not wander much, there is reason to suspect, as we have formerly seen, that their varieties are generally at first local; and that such local varieties do not spread widely and supplant their parent-form until they have been modified and perfected in some considerable degree. According to this view, the chance of discovering in a formation in any one country all the early stages of transition between any two forms, is small, for the successive changes are supposed to have been local or confined to some one spot.
p819
It is a more important consideration, leading to the same result, as lately insisted on by Dr. Falconer, namely, that the period during which each species underwent modification, though long as measured by years, was probably short in comparison with that during which it remained without undergoing any change.
p820 While fall short of full-blown PE these are close enough that PE can be seen as more of an extension of Darwin's views than contradicting them
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1572 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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If speciation occurs rapidly in a limited area we will only observe it in the fossil record if we have a very good record for that exact time and place (which is limited by our explorations, as well as by the limits of the record itself). While we have such records for some times and places they are more the exception than the rule. The other phase of punk-eek as I understand it, is that once this new species has evolved it expands outside its "incubation" habitat, and pushes into the areas inhabited by the parent population, displacing it. In the fossil record this looks like one species being replaced by a different one, with no intermediates at this species level. Creationists like to point to this as evidence of special creation of new species. For an idea of how a small initial population could spread into other habitats see Differential Dispersal Of Introduced Species - An Aspect of Punctuated Equilibrium. This takes several species that were introduced into North America with small initial populations and looks at their survival.
quote: While these examples are all birds and thus able to disperse widely fairly rapidly, the same process would hold for other organisms, with the rapidity of the dispersal dependent on their mobility. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4574 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
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While these examples are all birds and thus able to disperse widely fairly rapidly, the same process would hold for other organisms, with the rapidity of the dispersal dependent on their mobility. This has certainly been true for invasive weeds and insects. We see wood boring insects being moved from one part of North America to another with devastating effects for forests and orchards. Add to that transport of non-native species brought from other continents by global trade and you have disasters for agriculture simmering around the planet.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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CRR Member (Idle past 2409 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
It's not just speciation. The isolated population has to evolve to the point that when they reconnect and replace the parent population it appears as a sudden large scale change without intermediate forms.
This presents a problem since while the small population can fix mutations more rapidly it also has less resources to produce the large changes necessary to produce the saltation. Conversly the larger population is more likely to produce significant mutations. However the main problem is proposing this as the usual method of operation so that dominates gradualism in the fossil record.
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JonF Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
The new population need not replace the parent population. AFAICT it seldom does.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17874 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
quote: First it is not saltation. Second the assumption that most of the change is due to mutations that occur after the populations split needs justification. There were likely local variations already present before the split and we know that selection can produce significant phenotypic variation without the assistance of mutations.
quote: Why is it a problem to suggest that the mode of speciation accepted as the most common, is the most common mode ?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1572 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... The isolated population has to ... appears as a sudden large scale change ... What is "large scale change?" When I was exploring horse evolution on the Dogs will be Dogs will be ??? I did not see any specific change I would call "large scale" ... just the variations seen in dogs ... (further discussion on this concept should probably be best done on that thread). In punk-eek the new species appears in the fossil record, but there are obvious multiple homologies with older fossils found in the same geographical location, showing a clear path of lineage, and no radical change (nothing beyond what we see in the variations of dogs). So what is "large scale change?" Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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CRR Member (Idle past 2409 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
JonF, PaulK, RAZD,
The PE model was developed to explain large morphological gaps in the fossil record, saltations. It proposes that most of the change occurs offstage in a small population and this new form then sweeps through the environment producing a new species with no obvious transition from a previous one. Punk Eek still uses Darwinian type evolution; it just proposed it occurred in a small isolated population that was not preserved as fossils. If you think you can see a fossil series showing many small steps then punk eek does not apply to that example. added ...
quote: Saltation = an abrupt variation in the appearance of an organism, species, etc. Just a moment... Edited by CRR, : added...
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4574 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
The PE model was developed to explain large morphological gaps in the fossil record, saltations. You speak so authoritatively I assume you can point out in the Gould and Eldredge paper where they state that they developed their hypothesis to explain large morphological gaps in the fossil record, saltations.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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PaulK Member Posts: 17874 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
quote: Wrong. The only gaps in the fossil record that it explains are gaps between species. And it does not explain them by saltation. As you yourself go on to explain.
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CRR Member (Idle past 2409 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
PaulK, Tanypteryx
See update to Message 10
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PaulK Member Posts: 17874 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
So, you have a definition of saltation that agrees with my point.
And as I have already shown the idea of stasis is in Darwin's writings, so hardly new to Eldridge and Gould.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1572 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... developed to explain large morphological gaps in the fossil record, ... What is a "large morphological gap?"
Message 9: ... The isolated population has to ... appears as a sudden large scale change ... What is "large scale change?" In punk-eek the new species appears in the fossil record, but there are obvious multiple homologies with older fossils found in the same geographical location, showing a clear path of lineage, and no radical change (nothing beyond what we see in the variations of dogs). So what is "large scale change?" So what is a "large morphological gap?" Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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