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Author
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Topic: The TRVE history of the Flood...
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2546 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: 10-19-2016
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Message 571 of 1352 (806655)
04-27-2017 7:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 561 by Admin
04-26-2017 8:35 AM
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Re: Let's not keep arguing the same old basics
In this thread you can't argue that something is true because the Bible is true. You have to supply corroborating real world evidence. Archeological and historical evidence has consistently confirmed the Bible is true. That is corroborating real world evidence
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 561 by Admin, posted 04-26-2017 8:35 AM | | Admin has seen this message but not replied |
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2546 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: 10-19-2016
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Message 572 of 1352 (806656)
04-27-2017 7:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 556 by Pressie
04-26-2017 6:30 AM
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Re: More nonsense
Coyote, they will never discuss your research, because they can't find anything about it on some creationist website. So where is it published?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 556 by Pressie, posted 04-26-2017 6:30 AM | | Pressie has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 577 by Coyote, posted 04-27-2017 9:39 AM | | CRR has not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 18003 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 5.5
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Message 573 of 1352 (806664)
04-27-2017 8:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 571 by CRR
04-27-2017 7:57 AM
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Re: Let's not keep arguing the same old basics
quote:
Archeological and historical evidence has consistently confirmed the Bible is true. That is corroborating real world evidence
Nobody who is familiar with the subject would honestly make that claim. (Indeed, it suggests that their knowledge of the Bible is somewhat lacking)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 571 by CRR, posted 04-27-2017 7:57 AM | | CRR has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005
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Message 574 of 1352 (806666)
04-27-2017 8:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 571 by CRR
04-27-2017 7:57 AM
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Re: Let's not keep arguing the same old basics
Archeological and historical evidence has consistently confirmed the Bible is true.
But we all know this is not true. Or at least anyone that has made even a cursory studyn of the facts does. There is no archaeological or historical evidence for Jesus, the flood, exodus or Solomon's empire, to name just a few things in your book of fables.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 571 by CRR, posted 04-27-2017 7:57 AM | | CRR has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 575 by jar, posted 04-27-2017 8:57 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 143 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 575 of 1352 (806667)
04-27-2017 8:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 574 by Theodoric
04-27-2017 8:51 AM
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Re: Let's not keep arguing the same old basics
Or Creation, the Garden of Eden, Talking snakes, the Conquest of Canaan and many, many more.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 574 by Theodoric, posted 04-27-2017 8:51 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2410 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: 01-12-2008
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Message 576 of 1352 (806671)
04-27-2017 9:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 571 by CRR
04-27-2017 7:57 AM
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Re: Let's not keep arguing the same old basics
Archeological and historical evidence has consistently confirmed the Bible is true. That is corroborating real world evidence In the case of the flood, archaeological and historical evidence conclusively shows that the flood didn't happen as described. Same for the belief in a young earth.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 571 by CRR, posted 04-27-2017 7:57 AM | | CRR has not replied |
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2410 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: 01-12-2008
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Message 577 of 1352 (806676)
04-27-2017 9:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 572 by CRR
04-27-2017 7:59 AM
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Re: More nonsense
Coyote, they will never discuss your research, because they can't find anything about it on some creationist website. So where is it published? The type of information I have been citing is found worldwide, and has been published worldwide for over 100 years. One example (not one of mine): Genetic analysis of early holocene skeletal remains from Alaska and its implications for the settlement of the Americas - PubMed This study reports DNA continuity in southern Alaska and the west coasts of both North and South America over a span of 10,000+ years.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 572 by CRR, posted 04-27-2017 7:59 AM | | CRR has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10359 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 6.4
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Message 578 of 1352 (806701)
04-27-2017 10:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 570 by CRR
04-27-2017 7:55 AM
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Re: Learning
CRR writes: People learn easier if they are taught rather than abused for being ignorant. When the facts contradict their religious beliefs, some people refuse to learn.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 570 by CRR, posted 04-27-2017 7:55 AM | | CRR has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10359 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 6.4
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Message 579 of 1352 (806703)
04-27-2017 10:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 571 by CRR
04-27-2017 7:57 AM
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Re: Let's not keep arguing the same old basics
CRR writes: In this thread you can't argue that something is true because the Bible is true. You have to supply corroborating real world evidence. Archeological and historical evidence has consistently confirmed the Bible is true. That is corroborating real world evidence
Then perhaps you should present the corroborating evidence for a recent global flood. Each claim in the Bible must be independently verified. Simply finding one claim that is supported by evidence does not make all of the other claims true by default. For example: 1. The Cubs baseball team plays their home games in Chicago. 2. CO2 absorbs some wavelengths of light in the infrared spectrum. 3. Leprechauns make rainbows. If I can confirm claims 1 and 2, does that mean 3 is also true?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 571 by CRR, posted 04-27-2017 7:57 AM | | CRR has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 580 of 1352 (806756)
04-27-2017 12:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 570 by CRR
04-27-2017 7:55 AM
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Re: Learning
CRR writes: People learn easier if they are taught rather than abused for being ignorant.
I cheered your statement because it's true. However, creationists tend to be fiercely militant in their ignorance. When you're on an airplane, do you go up to the cockpit and tell the pilot he's flying wrong? If not, why would you tell people who have studied science for decades that they're wrong?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 570 by CRR, posted 04-27-2017 7:55 AM | | CRR has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 581 of 1352 (806761)
04-27-2017 1:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 571 by CRR
04-27-2017 7:57 AM
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Re: Let's not keep arguing the same old basics
Archeological and historical evidence has consistently confirmed the Bible is true. That is corroborating real world evidence Archaeological and historical evidence has consistently confirmed that the bit of the Bible we're discussing in this particular thread is false. If we ever have a thread on "Does Jerusalem exist?" or "Was Augustus Caesar a real person?" then you can talk about how the evidence corroborates the Bible.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 571 by CRR, posted 04-27-2017 7:57 AM | | CRR has not replied |
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1748 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 582 of 1352 (807012)
04-30-2017 10:34 AM
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Unanswered Question about Cratonic Sequences
In Message 477 I posted a chart of the Cratonic Sequences and raised the question how those separate transgressions of the sea, all supposedly shallow, all laying down some depth of strata, didn't rise to a great height, even about as much as the Flood of Noah, since each had to surmount the previous depth of strata. Other problems were noted in subsequent posts, such as a discrepancy between the depth of the Sauk sequence and the depth of strata it supposedly laid down. I was answered that subsidence of the land could be the explanation and I explored that possibility in a later post. But nobody gave any information about whether or not subsidence is considered to have occurred. As I recall none of this was considered by the resident Geologists. I would still like to hear how they account for the necessary great depth of the water at the end of all those separate transgressions. Thank you.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 593 by edge, posted 04-30-2017 3:40 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1748 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 583 of 1352 (807014)
04-30-2017 10:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 569 by edge
04-27-2017 12:22 AM
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Re: Erosion and unconformities in Cratonic Sequences
You mention Coyote's questions. I can't find them. Please keep in mind that sometimes I can't digest everything in your posts; probably often. Sometimes it's a big accomplishment to get any of it and the rest has to be ignored. Well, like with so many disciplines, people spend years studying these things at university. I can't apologize for it being a complex science. I wasn't asking you to apologize, if anything I was apologizing. At least I wanted to make you aware why I can't address everything you post and may need repetitions of this or that.
I'm used to Coyote mostly making remarks about radiometric timing and may not have read the post you are talking about in the first place. And I usually regret having any conversation at all with Pressie so I wouldn't get that reference either. You're hard enough to deal with hut there are others who are actually harder. Well, Pressie is a bit impatient, but it wouldn't hurt to learn something from his posts. Coyote has a different approach being an archaeologist, but the tools and reasoning are very similar to geology. I understand both. If I can't grasp the information, and Pressie for one seems to go out of his way to make things as difficult as possible -- giving information about South Africa for instance when I asked for information about North America -- forget it, the discussion is simply being sabotaged. Perhaps that's the intent.
AND: I don't expect to match anybody's experience. If it's clearly articulated it can be very helpful to hear about it, but sometimes people are good workers in their field but not good with words. If I get a clear picture of what someone is talking about then it may raise questions that help organize my Flood point of view, not that such a result would please you of course. The impression is that you are not learning anything; in fact it seems more that you refuse to learn anything. That is frustrating to people who have spent their careers studying a scientific profession. In fact, in many cases, it is insulting. I am a creationist, I try to learn whatever I am able to learn and especially if it addresses my creationist concerns. Perhaps impatient and irritable geologists shouldn't try to talk to creationists.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 569 by edge, posted 04-27-2017 12:22 AM | | edge has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 585 by Coyote, posted 04-30-2017 11:12 AM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1748 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 584 of 1352 (807016)
04-30-2017 10:46 AM
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Current status of thread: floundering in shallow water
The information about the unconformities was supposed to lead to a new phase of the discussion, but there was not enough information to allow me to grasp the point of any of it. Meanwhile the question of the rising sea water needed to cover the accumulating stack of sediments laid down by the separate shallow transgressions was never answered. The unconformities were then brought up in a way that brought the whole topic to an end.
Message 565 and 566
NEVER MIND. I found the Morris article, so I'll read it and get back to the thread eventually. Makes me happy too because the idea of the unconformities led me to the same explanation he came up with. Anyway, back to it later. The St. Peter Sandstone | The Institute for Creation Research Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2410 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: 01-12-2008
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Message 585 of 1352 (807021)
04-30-2017 11:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 583 by Faith
04-30-2017 10:41 AM
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Back to the flood that never happened...
I noted some references to questions I posed, so I'll repeat the information. It was at the beginning of this thread Message 3. I don't expect David to answer as he's been ducking, dodging and weaving for weeks now to avoid answering--as he has no answers, just the hollow claims of numerology.
My own archaeological research disproves the global flood ca. 4500 years ago. Research by my colleagues disproves it thousands of times over. In my research I have continuity of human cultures from before to after the date of the flood, and most importantly I have mitochondrial DNA of the same type extending from before to after that date. If there was such a flood, the earlier mtDNA haplotype would be eliminated, to be replaced by a type from the Middle East. A few other little details: there is no evidence of the erosional or depositional features that would necessarily associate with such a flood in the area I study. But if you truly want to see the features left by flood erosion, google "channeled scablands" and look at the images. Some notable examples are from central and eastern Washington: The nice thing about the flood evidence in Washington is that we can date the events and we know the cause! They occurred between 18,000 and 13,000 years ago, and resulted from formation and breakage of ice dams upstream. Oh, and this evidence is about three or four times older than the purported global flood. How is it that we see the evidence of those older floods but not evidence of a much larger and much more recent flood? (Answer: it didn't happen.) So, don't be claiming that the flood is TRVE history. It is a belief, not a fact.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 583 by Faith, posted 04-30-2017 10:41 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 586 by Faith, posted 04-30-2017 12:58 PM | | Coyote has replied |
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