Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 60 (9208 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: The Rutificador chile
Post Volume: Total: 919,510 Year: 6,767/9,624 Month: 107/238 Week: 24/83 Day: 3/4 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Glenn Morton's Evidence Examined
jar
Member (Idle past 98 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 61 of 427 (791038)
09-09-2016 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
09-09-2016 9:53 AM


Re: On Meanders
Faith writes:
The Grand Canyon meander was also cut in flat terrain which is clearly seen in the picture posted above. The idea that the levels were caused by erosion is nonsensical; they are clearly rings showing former levels of the river, which was obviously very deep when it started.
Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense at least in the English language.
If the Colorado River canyon began on a flat plain how could it be very deep when it started? On a flat plain water simply spreads out.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 09-09-2016 9:53 AM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9583
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.5


(1)
Message 62 of 427 (791041)
09-09-2016 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
09-09-2016 9:53 AM


Re: On Meanders
Ok take that meander - it looks pretty slow and gentle to me.
Now imagine that flat landscape covered by 40,000 feet of water that suddenly has to drain away somewhere. I can't see why it wouldn't go out just like a tide. Unlike ice, it's properly fluid, it wouldn't gouge huge channels, it would take the least line of resistence, it would simply slide away frictionlessly until it got to ground level leaving a flatish landscape strewn with boulders and trees. A bit like what happens after a real flood:

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 09-09-2016 9:53 AM Faith has not replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 427 (791042)
09-09-2016 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
09-09-2016 10:17 AM


Re: On Meanders
So if you can find oil and gas using YEC geology...tell me how you do it.
Explain to me how you use the relative dating and the "morphology" to find an unknown and undiscovered oil and gas deposit.
I am sitting here waiting for the explanation of the methodology you use.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 09-09-2016 10:17 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:28 PM petrophysics1 has replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 427 (791043)
09-09-2016 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by petrophysics1
09-09-2016 1:26 PM


Re: on basic physics and chemistry
Redundant message hidden. --Admin
Edited by Admin, : Hide message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:26 PM petrophysics1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:29 PM petrophysics1 has replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 427 (791044)
09-09-2016 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by petrophysics1
09-09-2016 1:28 PM


Re: on basic physics and chemistry
Redundant message hidden. --Admin
Edited by Admin, : Hide message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:28 PM petrophysics1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:29 PM petrophysics1 has replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 427 (791045)
09-09-2016 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by petrophysics1
09-09-2016 1:29 PM


Re: on basic physics and chemistry
Redundant message hidden. --Admin
Edited by Admin, : Hide message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:29 PM petrophysics1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:30 PM petrophysics1 has replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 427 (791046)
09-09-2016 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by petrophysics1
09-09-2016 1:29 PM


Re: on basic physics and chemistry
Redundant message hidden. --Admin
Edited by Admin, : Hide message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:29 PM petrophysics1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:31 PM petrophysics1 has replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 427 (791047)
09-09-2016 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by petrophysics1
09-09-2016 1:30 PM


Re: on basic physics and chemistry
Redundant message hidden. --Admin
Edited by Admin, : Hide message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:30 PM petrophysics1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:32 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 427 (791048)
09-09-2016 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by petrophysics1
09-09-2016 1:31 PM


Re: on basic physics and chemistry
Redundant message hidden. --Admin
Edited by Admin, : Hide message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 1:31 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 70 of 427 (791049)
09-09-2016 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by kbertsche
09-09-2016 1:53 AM


I am merely reporting what I've been told by former YECs who worked successfully in oil exploration while operating under a YEC paradigm.
"while operating under a YEC paradigm" does not seem to mean applying YEC assumptions, but simply not worrying about how old stuff was while searching for oil, and while continuing to believe the earth was young. It does not seem to mean that assuming a young earth was the least bit helpful in finding oil.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by kbertsche, posted 09-09-2016 1:53 AM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by petrophysics1, posted 09-09-2016 2:15 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 88 by kbertsche, posted 09-09-2016 11:34 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 71 of 427 (791050)
09-09-2016 1:58 PM


BTW, Faith's explanations violate basic laws of physics, but she is so stupid she doesn't realize this. Ask her to explain the angular unconformity at the grand canyon. violates basic physics .All of her explanations for a strat column anywhere violate basic laws of physics, chemistry, biology and math.
Is it possible for a mentally ill person to think they have an understanding of geology.........well this thread and many others prove that is true.

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 427 (791051)
09-09-2016 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by NoNukes
09-09-2016 1:54 PM


The YEC paradigm violates basic laws of physics and chemistry. As such it has no use in predicting anything, regardless of what you may think.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by NoNukes, posted 09-09-2016 1:54 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6077
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 7.1


(6)
Message 73 of 427 (791055)
09-09-2016 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
09-08-2016 5:03 PM


So if you concede {oil is} findable by YEC methods welcome to the club and I'll expect you to bring your arguments to bear against the OE guys.
Uh, just where did anyone "concede it's findable by YEC methods"? Rather, what I've been seeing them say is that a YEC who follows standard geological practice would be able to find oil. Nothing about YEC methods being useful in that endeavor.
There are many analogies we can draw from. You could have the most hare-brained wrong ideas about cooking and baking, but so long as you follow the recipe you will get the desired results. But where did those recipes come from? From cooks and bakers who did understand food science and how cooking and baking does actually work.
In Isaac Asimov's classic Foundation (1951), after the predicted collapse of the Galactic Empire, the Foundation started to export technology cloaked as religion. The neighboring worlds would send their acolytes to be trained by the Foundation priests and those technician-priests would perform the requisite rituals and say the requisite prayers and then push the green button to start up the fusion reactor, etc. I read that when I was an Air Force computer repair technician and I saw how that applied to several of the technicians I was working with. You do not need to understand how something works in order to operate or maintain it; all you need to is to know and to follow the procedures for those tasks. And who wrote those procedures? People who do actually know how those systems work.
So for a YEC to be able to find oil, he needs to use procedures developed and published by old-earth geologists (OEG, AKA "real geologists"). That YEC will not be using YEC methods, but rather OEG methods. That a YEC following OEG methods should be able to find oil does not in any way validate YEC methods.
The formation of the geologic structures which trap oil cannot be explained by YEC methods. The distribution of index fossils cannot be explained by YEC methods. The association of oil and gas with such structures and such index fossils cannot be explained by YEC methods. However, they can all be explained by OEG methods.
Furthermore, early in the history of oil exploration it took OEG knowledge and understanding to anticipate what kinds of structures and which index fossils to should be associate with oil and gas deposits. The only way that association could have been worked out without OEG would have been purely by trial and error.
Though there have been attempts to use YEC methods to explore for oil. One YEC explanation for oil formation is by meteor impact and some YECs have tried exploring about impact sites, but with no success. There's also at least one company, Zion Oil & Gas, Inc, (reported about on NPR, 2013 Nov 27) which has been using the Bible to find oil without any success, though they do raise a lot of money from fundamentalist donations (kind of reminds one of Mel Brooks' The Producers).
So when you use OEG methods you can find oil, but not when you use YEC methods.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 09-08-2016 5:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 09-09-2016 11:04 PM dwise1 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 98 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 74 of 427 (791058)
09-09-2016 5:55 PM


and old human habitation sites in the Americas.
Another reason to throw the idea of a Young Earth on the trash heap of history are all the human habitation sites over 10,000 years old just in the Americas.
There's Topper that pushes human occupation in the Americas back over 40,000 years.
And Bluefish caves.
And Meadowcroft Rock Shelter.
And Monte Verde in southern Chile.
There's Anzic-1 and the Haida peoples of British Columbia.
There's Cactus Hill and Saltville in Virginia.
Since it is very likely that there were human population in the Americas thousands of years before the creation dates marketed by Young Earth Creationists the whole idea of a young Earth is once again refuted.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Coyote, posted 09-09-2016 6:05 PM jar has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2365 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 75 of 427 (791059)
09-09-2016 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by jar
09-09-2016 5:55 PM


Re: and old human habitation sites in the Americas.
The oldest date I've obtained personally in the western US is 9,410 BP.
Another site you could add to the list: the Manis Mastodon Site in Sequim, WA. Several dates there are on the close order of 13,800 BP.
Another site, one that I worked on, is the Marmes Rockshelter, in central Washington. It goes past 11,000 BP.
There are quite a few others as well.
All show that the young earth idea fails. And try as the might creationists have not been able to find any flaws in radiocarbon dating, though they will often shout "assumptions," as if that invalidated a whole branch of science.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by jar, posted 09-09-2016 5:55 PM jar has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024