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Author | Topic: A Believers Critique Of The Humanist Manifesto | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13103 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
I had a typo in Faith’s disallowed words list, fixed now. Apologies.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1669 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
ringo writes: Faith writes: I didn't say they OBEYED the law, I merely stated the law. It's not a law. The Commandments mention no such law. It is considered to be a law, called a "Creation Ordinance" and we are to obey the Creation Ordinances as laws. There is only one other I know of -- "be fruitful and multiply" -- but there may be more:
THANK YOU PERCY FOR EASING UP ON THE CENSORSHIP. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1669 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Of course it's still a free country. You are free to obey your god to your hearts content. No one is going to deny you that right. But everyone else is also free to obey their own gods or lack thereof without any interference from you. No, I believe it is not a free country any more when a Christian cannot obey God without being punished for it, as the businesses who refused to cater a gay wedding were punished.. It's just the beginning of worse to come as I and many others see it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: No, I believe it is not a free country any more when a Christian cannot obey God without being punished for it, as the businesses who refused to cater a gay wedding were punished.. But it was not "Christians", rather just a simple cultist Chapter of Club Christian. They were treated no differently that other Christian cults that have practices that break laws like dancing with venomous serpents, drinking poison or practicing polygamy. It is not God's Law you are obeying but simply the dogma of your particular Chapter of Club Christian.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1669 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, the Christians who were punished for obeying God are the true Biblical Christians, no cult, and each of those business owners understood the Bible in the same way independently of one another, because it is standard Biblical teaching: A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife. There has never been any doubt in mainline Christianityh as to what that means, it is indeed God's law, called a Creation Ordinance, and it does not include homosexual partners. So we will be punished for taking this stand in a country that has validated gay marriage.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17893 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
quote: Except that they are disobeying God. There is no rule forbidding catering to gay wedding parties. And before you argue that they believed that they were obeying God, the exact same may be said of segregationists who also disobeyed anti-discrimination laws.
quote: The descent of the Right is of far greater concern to anyone with any sense.
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Just like the cult members that believe God commands them to take up snakes or drink poison or have multiple wives.
You can claim your "True Christian" status all you want but it is no more legitimate than any other silly claim.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1669 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You may not dictate what Christians believe. It is clear to us that a gay wedding violates the Creation Ordinance of marriage between a man and a woman and that if we participate in a gay wedding we are violating that law. All the businesses put in the position of being asked to cater to a gay wedding understood that it violates God's law and had to obey that law instead of the secular law.
But this is all I want to say about this. It's off topic of course as the last few pages have all been off topic, and there is nothing more to say about it anyway.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17893 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3
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quote: And I clearly did not do so.
quote: But you obviously would not be violating that law if all you do is provide paid services. Anyone who marries before being able to move out of their parents home more clearly violates that law and yet I doubt very much that you would object.
quote: And yet there is nothing in God’s law that justifies such a stance, but there is a requirement to follow the secular law.
quote: Indeed, you have no answer to the fact that your position hardly differs from that of a die-hard segregationist. The only difference is that you are fine with discrimination against gays. Yet you have no better claim of persecution, nor any cause to say that there is any great loss of freedom in extending that anti-discrimination laws to protect gays.
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ringo Member (Idle past 637 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
That's reverse engineering - i.e. adjusting the Bible to fit the doctrine. It is considered to be a law, called a "Creation Ordinance" and we are to obey the Creation Ordinances as laws."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1669 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I suspect it is simply how men of superior spirituality understand the Bible.
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Phat Member Posts: 18586 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
jar writes: As I have tried to tell you over and over and over again. Christianity is not fully supportable by or through evidence. Christianity is a tested belief. A belief validated through scripture, the experience of believers, and countless testimonies that corroborate each other despite having separate incidents and locations. I realize that you actually laugh at this type of Christianity. (or call it sad and pitiful, for some odd reason) I feel that you have never allowed yourself to believe anything without evidence. Its almost as if you have to actually see an event happen before you will ever allow it to be true in your mind. In addition, much of what you believe has been concluded through evidence, logic, and reason. I'm not saying you are wrong, though I'm saying that what you consider foolish may, in fact, be the right answers. The issue is testing what the Apologists say and so far you have not presented even one example of an Apologist that stands up to even cursory scrutiny. And recently you brought up the Harvard Divinity Schools synopsis of the humanist manifesto. From that article:
Recurring themes of the Humanist Manifestos include agreement on the dismissal of the supernatural, the centrality of human potential, and the need for a global community that seeks to maximize the good of humanity. Supernatural manifestations are one of the clearest signs that point to the reality of God's presence among us. To dismiss these simply on the lack of objective measurable evidence is willful ignorance at best. Granted much of it is faked...but I don't believe that all of it is. Human potential is nice, but throwing God away is not the answer. Atheists always claim to be a large minority, but atheism is gaining ground intellectually largely due to the efforts of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennet. The Four Horsemen are a big threat. Though you claim to be a believer, you lean more towards their side than you do the apologists, not all of whom lie and misrepresent anything. Why you and Theodoric claim they do cause a call for evidence. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 637 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
No such thing as "superior spirituality". Jesus Himself recommended the understanding of a child. I suspect it is simply how men of superior spirituality understand the *****."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1669 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The understanding of a child IS superior spirituality.
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ringo Member (Idle past 637 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Amen. But you're contradicting yourself. It isn't the understanding of a child that puts your definition on marriage. The understanding of a child IS superior spirituality."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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