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Author Topic:   The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock
Boof
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 99
From: Australia
Joined: 08-02-2010


Message 213 of 1257 (788300)
07-29-2016 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
07-28-2016 7:02 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Faith writes:
But if it wasn’t lithified it’s hard to see how it could ever maintain any semblance of flatness as we see in the strata now. It also hard to suppose that a whole landscape formed on it with trees and rivers and waterfalls and so on because all those should have left their mark in it, but didn’t. Some trees put down incredibly deep roots for instance. How come such root systems aren’t common in the rocks that supposedly once supported a whole time period of living things in a landscape? (Don’t try to tell me they’re common; I know they’re not).
But that’s just one of many problems. The thing is we DO have to think in terms of rock-landscape-rock, and in terms of not a shred of that landscape remaining on the surface of the rock either, just some fossilized flora and fauna in the rock.
Nothing anyone has said gives a reasonable explanation of this that I can see.
The idea that there aren't landscapes, hills, mountains, rivers found within sedimentary sequences is simply incorrect. Just do a google image search on 'seismic section' and you can see all sorts of preserved features.
Geological studies show us that most major sedimentary deposits occur either as a result of rising sea levels (such as often happens after significant glaciation events) or due to land subsidence (as might occur due to crustal thinning during rifting). As the water level rises in a marine transgression a characteristic sequence of rocks is often deposited - check out this site to see one way geologists might identify transgressive sequences in outcrop. Marine transgressions at specific locations can often be correlated with other locations using biostratigraphy and isotopic analyses to create curves of global sea level changes. Here is an example of calculated sea level change for the last 350,000 years:
(source: http://lirrf.org/posts/paleo-reefs-last-126000-years/).
The key is that these transgressions normally take tens of thousands of years for the sea level to change from its minimum to its maximum (eg in the diagram above kya on the x axis = tens of thousands of years before present). As the sea level rises the shoreline moves gradually further ‘inwards’ depositing coarse beach sands overlain by silts then shales etc. So the reason that you don’t normally see tree roots still ‘in place’ in the lithified rocks is because the tree ecosystems retreat inwards as the sea level gradually rises. You don’t often see trees living beyond the waterline in a coastal beach environment do you?
Interesting where we do (as you pointed out, quite rarely) see tree roots and sometimes tree stumps preserved 'in-situ' in the geological record it’s normally in locations where the vegetation has been rapidly inundated by mud or ash flows, ie more of a catastrophic scenario (ie Biblical flood perhaps).
So the geological evidence supports relatively slow marine incursions and basin development and not wholesale catastrophic indundation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 07-28-2016 7:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 07-29-2016 2:29 PM Boof has replied

  
Boof
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 99
From: Australia
Joined: 08-02-2010


(1)
Message 239 of 1257 (788357)
07-30-2016 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Faith
07-29-2016 2:29 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Hi Faith
The supposed seismic imagery of deeply buried "landscapes" has come up here many times and my answer is those are not actual landscapes that were ever on the surface of the earth, but simply features like "canyons" carved by running water, probably after being deposited and buried, that got filled in by the next layer of sediment. That's really the only kind of thing that is seen on that sort of imaging, not enough to hang an entire landscape on of the sort we see on the surface of the earth today.
I’m not sure I’m following you Faith — if we see running water eroding lithified sediments to create a canyon, surely that is happening at the earth’s surface and is part of the landscape? Or are you assuming that this is occurring completely underwater while above the water the landscape is flat and no erosion at all is occurring? What would your justification for that be? In general under water tends to be places of deposition and above water tends to be locations for erosion but you want to swap that around? That might require some adjustments to the laws of physics.
The other thing to note is that researching of the drilling data in some of these seismic sections shows they drilled through coal seams, evaporates, fluvial sequences even air-fall tuffs all showing strong evidence of subaerial environmental conditions. In other words they were forming ancient landscapes.
You are basically describing Walther's Law though giving it thousands of unnecessary years.
I’m not giving it anything. The chronology of the graph I presented was based on evidential measurements including geochronology, biostratigraphy and isotope analysis. Plus direct observations show us that 200m thick reefs (the limestones that often occur in transgressive sequences) don’t grow that thick overnight.
Such a scenario implies that all living things in its path, land creatures anyway, would eventually have died, and at its peak everything on the land that was covered by it would be well and truly dead after those thousands of years of rising and then presumably falling at a similar rate.
Well, yes. Not many animals live for thousands of years.
But the strata that this process laid down supposedly represent all the living things fossilized within them. Which of course they can't be if they're dead and buried in the sediment.
Not sure what you are getting at in these two sentences. Obviously not all living things get fossilised, only those unfortunate few who die in the right conditions. But if they do get dead and buried in the sediment — well eventually they might become fossilised. I’m not sure how strata ‘represents’ fossils though
I suppose you are describing the supposed six "cratonic sequences" or "epeiric seas" that periodically inundated North America as well as other places around the globe?
No, why would you think that? The chart I present referred only to the last 350,000 years.
Some of those look like they took a lot more than mere thousands of years, judging from a chart showing their duration, since they may span the greatest part of a whole time period dated to cover many millions of years.
Sounds interesting, why don’t you show me the chart?
Where they affect land creatures, at their peak what's left living? But actually these seas apparently killed off all kinds of sea life that is now extinct, such as in the Western Interior Seaway. Buried and fossilized too. Supposedly they WOULD have lived there, but then they died in huge numbers. Which I guess can be rationalized except that it seems like an awful lot of them to get fossilized instead of scavenged.
Faith, we don’t claim that any of these these transgressive events ever covered ALL of the continents, even at their peaks. That is a Biblical concept. Land creatures kept living on the bits of Earth that weren’t under water.
OK I'll accept that explanation. It fits of course with what I'm saying about how such a transgression of the sea would kill everything in its path.
Apart from things than could move faster that 100m/year I guess? Not really sure what your point is.
Catastrophic or not, however, such a scenario would be just as deadly, as I argue above.
Yeah, well over periods of tens of thousands of years lots of things die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 07-29-2016 2:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
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