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Author Topic:   The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock
Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 247 of 1257 (788392)
07-30-2016 11:38 PM


The geologic timeline ("column") - The analogy
The geologic timeline can be annotated by various processes, events, and results. For any given moment in that timeline, different processes, events, and results happened at various locations of the world.
The analogy is the (relatively speaking) recent history of the Earth, or in my specific example, the recent history of Europe and America.
Specific source of graphic
Source page of graphic
Now the above timeline graphic is oldest at the top, while the geologic timeline ("geologic column") is presented with the oldest at the bottom. But the concept is the same.
The graphic shows many different "stratigraphic columns" for the different locations. Likewise in geology, there are many different stratigraphic columns, depending on where in the world you are.
The is no such thing as THE stratagraphic column.
For whatever it might be worth, Stratigraphic column - Wikipedia
Moose

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(2)
Message 258 of 1257 (788439)
07-31-2016 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Faith
07-31-2016 3:34 PM


Time-stratigraphy vs Litho-stratigraphy
I note your point about the exception to the rule, the Wingate.
I pulled this graphic from Percy message 9 at the "Depositional Models of Sea Transgressions/Regressions - Walther's Law" topic, although he apparently somewhere got it from roxrkool.
Note the two stratigraphic columns at the lower-left corner. It illustrates the difference between chronostratigraphic (time-stratigraphic) correlation and lithostratigrapnic correlation. The essence is, that you have various sedimentary (various rock) units happening at the same time (chronostratigraphic correlation). You also have specific sedimentary (rock) units that that have different ages depending on the location (lithostratigraphic correlation).
An example is, that you could (and do) have a sandstone unit that is entirely Devonian at one location, entirely Ordovician at another location, and straddles the Ordovician-Devonian time boundary at some point in between.
Moose

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 302 of 1257 (788704)
08-03-2016 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:22 PM


Walther's Law deposits sediments from the ocean itself ???!!!
But Walther's Law deposits sediments from the ocean itself.
The sands and muds are detritus which have an on-land source. The carbonates and coccolith foram (silica) ooze are biochemical precipitates out of the seawater, although even then I think the ultimate source of the carbonate and silica is largely from an on-land source.
Walther's Law is the relationship between the types of sediments of lateral deposits (shoreline to deep sea) and the types of sediments found in a column at a given location. It does not say that the sediments are derived from the ocean basin.
Moose

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 705 of 1257 (789612)
08-17-2016 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 703 by Faith
08-16-2016 9:01 PM


The study of what you're calling "landscapes" is called "Geomorphology"
Okay, so are we in agreement then that what we see is a succession of landscapes over time?
Yes. Meaning that's what Geology says is seen in the strata.
Geomorphology - Wikipedia (I imagine the white background is bad for your eyes - Sorry):
quote:
Geomorphology (from Greek: γῆ, g, "earth"; μορφή, morphḗ, "form"; and λόγος, lgos, "study") is the scientific study of the origin and evolution of topographic and bathymetric features created by physical, chemical or biological processes operating at or near the Earth's surface. Geomorphologists seek to understand why landscapes look the way they do, to understand landform history and dynamics and to predict changes through a combination of field observations, physical experiments and numerical modeling.
Much more there.
The surface and the near surface, to a lesser or greater degree, are continuously being modified. Whatever survives to be buried deeper has a chance to be lithified into rock.
That's all for now.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 1045 of 1257 (790723)
09-03-2016 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1041 by jar
09-03-2016 7:40 PM


Touching on Walther's Law again
jar writes:
Faith writes:
Walther's Law produces an ordered series of alternating layers types and Walther's Law is consistent with the idea of Flood water rising and receding.
Unfortunately Walther's Law does NOT explain the ordered sequences found in reality.
Walther's Law explains the relation between the lateral depositional environments deposits and the vertical sequence of those same deposits, when the depositional environments migrate. It was originally formulated when Walther was studying river deposits, but is much more easily understood when looking at transgressing/regressing seas deposits.
I'm not to keen on the phrase "Walther's Law produces"; Rather it should be "Walther's Law explains". That said, I think that Faith's statement has a lot of truth to it. But where Jar may be correct, is that the sequences found in reality show repeated major sea transgressions/regressions, not anything like only one major transgression/regression (which would seem the be the Biblical flood scenario).
Walther's Law does explain much of the ordered sequences found in reality. But it's not a single great flood reality.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

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 Message 1041 by jar, posted 09-03-2016 7:40 PM jar has replied

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 1096 of 1257 (790809)
09-06-2016 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1078 by Faith
09-05-2016 7:04 AM


Geologic processes relative dating still adds up to a lot of time
In reference to old Earth geology:
Sure they work. That's because you consistently confuse the physical level of a rock -- or its depth or position in the geologic column -- with the ridiculous ancient age you assign to it. The level is all you need to know, the age is a lie.
I think there is substantial truth to Faith's statement, although having absolute dating methods sure does help in tying the "picture" together.
A lot of the "picture" comes together quite fine, just by using relative dating methodology. Because of geometric relationships, geologists can determine a vast sequence of processes and events that resulted in the current Earth's geology.
And, even without any variety of absolute dating methods, it can be determined that these vast sequences must have taken a lot of time, certainly well outside of the young Earth time frame.
Just a few examples from Minnesota, oldest to youngest:
On a field trip I was shown an amphibolite, a high grade metamorphosed basaltic volcanic. It was in fault contact with a much lower grade metamorphosed basaltic volcanic. Now, laboratory pressure/temperature studies say that to get amphibolite requires a burial depth (per what the geology professor said, IIRC) of something along the lines of 20 kilometers (60,000 feet, 12 miles). Now, since this amphibolite is now at the surface, it means that approximately 20 km of material must have been eroded from above it. That's two times Mount Everest's height above sea level. That took some time. By the way, the rock is dated at C. 2.7 billion years old, so it has had plenty of time.
The rocks of the Lake Superior basin is mostly (younger, only 1.1 billion years old) basaltic volcanics. At the thickest, there is about 6 miles (30,000 feet, 10km) of strata there. Again, it takes some time to pile up that much rock. Basically, we have an Everest height of flood (not that flood) basalts.
Now to "modern" history - The Pleistocene of Minnesota. There were 4 distinct glacial advances and retreats during the Pleistocene. Again, it takes some time to form, move, and melt back a continental glacier.
And that doesn't consider the rocks that happened between 2.7 bya and 1.1 bya in northern Minnesota, or all that Paleozoic, Mesozoic, and Cenozoic overburden that happened after the 1.1 bya volcanics and before the glorious glacial debris.
The Earth's geology is a vast and extremely complicated 3 dimensional jigsaw puzzle, that required much more than 5 to 10 thousand years to get to the present state.
Critiques of my geologic statements welcome.
Moose

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 Message 1078 by Faith, posted 09-05-2016 7:04 AM Faith has replied

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