Creation

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Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

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Spreading doesn't mean expansion. When you spread butter you have the same volume. Only the shape changes.

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Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

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Same as above. Curtains don't expand.

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Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

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Here you have the earth spreading. Science does not claim that the earth is expanding.

Why does that make more sense? How do you go from an unknown quantity like "God" to a sensible conclusion? Wouldn't the conclusion be more sensible if it came from only known quantities, like dirt? But you're the one who doesn't want to be accountable, aren't you? You want God to do it all for you.

That was accretion, not expansion.

If a new theory is needed, that is not "proof" that the old theory was "false".

But the process is completely different. The earth got larger because new matter was added to it. The expansion of the universe involves a fixed amount of matter/energy. You never mentioned it to me. I don't clam up.

You're not saying anything. The fact is that the Bible doesn't say anything about expansion.

You quoted Job, where it says "spread", not stretched. As I've already pointed out, when you spread butter you don't increase the volume.You quoted Isaiah, where it says the heavens were stretched out "like a curtain". When you stretch out a curtain, it doesn't get bigger. Only it's shape changes, like spreading butter.So no, the Bible doesn't say the universe expanded.

Think it through. That's exactly how tents are spread. They go from a small, folded package to a large, flat surface - but the volume of the fabric doesn't change. Again, "stretching out" the fabric does not mean that the fabric expanded. To be analogous with the expansion of space, the threads in the fabric would have to get farther apart. You'd have a tent full of holes.So no, the Bible does not talk about expansion in the same way that scientists do.

We're talking about the tent itself, not the volume that it encloses. A tent unfolds to a specific size and doesn't get any bigger. That's the difference between spreading and expansion.As I said, if a tent was expanding like the universe, the spaces between the threads would get bigger, giving you a tent full of holes. I don't have to go to a sports store to know I wouldn't buy that tent.

The volume enclosed by the material increases to a certain point and then stops. What science describes is the material itself expanding, and with no particular limit on how much it can expand. That's basically what I'm trying to tell you. You should give up the idea that the ancient Hebrews had any hint of an idea about the expanding universe. They had no words for the concept because they didn't have the concept.

The universe is not "contained". It is the fabric. But a tent can not expand forever, so Moses was clearly wrong.

Does expansion have anything to do with thermodynamics at all? It's the space that's expanding, not the stuff in it, and only stuff can contain heat.In any case, it doesn't address what I said. A tent does not expand; it unfolds. Moses had no clue.

But it isn't the same kind of "spreading" as expansion. You're misunderstanding those pictures. The "forward direction" is the time axis. The universe is expanding in three dimensions - a sphere, not a circle. The pictures are attempting to show four dimensions in two dimensions.

As I said, it is not expanding in a "forward direction". You're misunderstanding the pictures. That is what the pictures are meant to show. What you see as a "forward direction" is time.

You obviously do misunderstand. There is no "forward direction". Think of the picture as an animation: The initial inflation happens quicky, then expansion continues more slowly - but the universe itself is in the shape of a sphere. That's exactly what it shows. The universe is expanding as time passes. "Forward direction" is meaningless. It does. You're misunderstanding the picture.